ckessel
Well-Known Member
Its awesome you have a nice stash of parts to pick from.
Lookie what $5000 buys you....
- Thread starter Kern Dog
- Start date
Headers suck...up until you start driving and then they're great! Ultimately I think you'll be disappointed with the manifolds in place. Even "reworked" headers will flow exponentially more than manifolds.
- Local time
- 7:02 AM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 35,601
- Reaction score
- 125,449
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
It really helps.
These cars are not cheap to build even if all you're doing is getting it mechanically sound. All the little missing parts really add up.
Since I haven't seen many of these cars in 100% stock form, I just put them back together in a way that makes the most sense to me.
Is this how the Power Steering hose is supposed to be? Who knows? Not me....It fits and clears so that is good enough for me.
The fan clutch that I was going to use sat a bit too close to the radiator. I went to the shed and grabbed the Hayden short neck clutch. I am not sure but I thought the part number was 2947 ?
I decided to use the 5 blade fan for now.
LOOK at how tight it is to get those bolts in place!
It clears the radiator though. SCORE!
- Local time
- 7:02 AM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 35,601
- Reaction score
- 125,449
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
The fuel sending unit is 3/8", the rear to front fuel line is 3/8" but the fittings on the fuel pump are 5/16". Bonehead logic tells me that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. I ran 5/16" hard line from the pump to the carburetor. This is a test fit. I will put hose clamps on all the rubber hose connections. If/when I switch to a bigger carburetor, I'll put in a 3/8" line.
I mentioned before that I have a rebuilt heater/defroster unit but before I can put it in, I need that big round duct that fits on the right side under the cowl. Since I don't have that yet, I decided to temporarily loop the fittings on the water pump housing.
I'm getting close!
With the car on the lift, I will be able to shape and fit the ATF cooler lines. The ones I pulled from Ginger got bent up a bit on removal. They didn't look that good anyway so I might use some others that I have.
This Griffin radiator has no transmission cooler in it so just like in Ginger, I'm going to use an external cooler. It has worked for 20 years so it will be fine for this car.
I need to make way for the lines to go through the core support. I'll run them low, below the battery tray about here:
They have to snake around the power steering pump and oil filter. Bending those lines isn't easy. What is this stuff made from? Is it stainless steel?
I mentioned before that I have a rebuilt heater/defroster unit but before I can put it in, I need that big round duct that fits on the right side under the cowl. Since I don't have that yet, I decided to temporarily loop the fittings on the water pump housing.
I'm getting close!
With the car on the lift, I will be able to shape and fit the ATF cooler lines. The ones I pulled from Ginger got bent up a bit on removal. They didn't look that good anyway so I might use some others that I have.
This Griffin radiator has no transmission cooler in it so just like in Ginger, I'm going to use an external cooler. It has worked for 20 years so it will be fine for this car.
I need to make way for the lines to go through the core support. I'll run them low, below the battery tray about here:
They have to snake around the power steering pump and oil filter. Bending those lines isn't easy. What is this stuff made from? Is it stainless steel?
- Local time
- 10:02 AM
- Joined
- May 14, 2011
- Messages
- 17,245
- Reaction score
- 32,447
- Location
- On the Ridge, TN
At least an inch clear, right (the bottom is closer than the top, of course)?
Back when I did my thread on all the cooling upgrades, using the thick Griffin radiator
caused me all manner of consternation with fans, clutches, shrouds...
I tried the famous "Jaguar" Hayden clutch and yeah, one needs little girly fingers to
deal with the bolts on that one.
Wound up on mine, it still wasn't enough clearance for my comfort (3/4"), so I wound
up with a 7-blade direct drive fan and factory shroud instead.
- Local time
- 7:02 AM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 35,601
- Reaction score
- 125,449
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
I tried installing that fan clutch in the other car with the shroud. THAT was a delicate surgery type of act that I didn't enjoy. I found that this time, you not only need a very specific length of bolt, you need to install them a certain way. You have to tighten each one a little at a time. Cranking one down puts the others in a bind.
Last edited:
Fan clutch bolts with that shorty clutch =
"A real pain in the dick"...
-Kern Dog
And I couldn't agree more! But yeah that's the trick, slide one in at an angle and only get it started so the fan can be pulled away from the clutch just enough to angle the next bolt in and start it. Then once they're all started I hold the clutch out against the bolt heads to make space for the wrench and go just like you said, a little at a time on each one.
Awesome project by the way!!
"A real pain in the dick"...
-Kern Dog
And I couldn't agree more! But yeah that's the trick, slide one in at an angle and only get it started so the fan can be pulled away from the clutch just enough to angle the next bolt in and start it. Then once they're all started I hold the clutch out against the bolt heads to make space for the wrench and go just like you said, a little at a time on each one.
Awesome project by the way!!
- Local time
- 7:02 AM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 35,601
- Reaction score
- 125,449
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
Thanks, Sir!
A few years ago, I asked on some forum why my fan sits closer to the bottom of the radiator than the top. Someone responded that it is because the factory used brackets that tilted the top of the radiator back a few degrees and most aftermarket radiator companies just used straight brackets.
Also, I was curious as to why this fan sat closer to the radiator than my other car with a similar setup. Maybe there is some variance from car to car?
Ginger: Stock unibody, 440, RH W/P housing, Griffin radiator (2001-2019)
Jigsaw: Replaced front stub with '70 Belvedere stub, 383, RH W/P housing, Griffin radiator.
A few years ago, I asked on some forum why my fan sits closer to the bottom of the radiator than the top. Someone responded that it is because the factory used brackets that tilted the top of the radiator back a few degrees and most aftermarket radiator companies just used straight brackets.
Also, I was curious as to why this fan sat closer to the radiator than my other car with a similar setup. Maybe there is some variance from car to car?
Ginger: Stock unibody, 440, RH W/P housing, Griffin radiator (2001-2019)
Jigsaw: Replaced front stub with '70 Belvedere stub, 383, RH W/P housing, Griffin radiator.
Hm yeah maybe the Plymouth metal has slight variations compared to the Charger's factory pieces? Gotta love hot roddin'.
ckessel
Well-Known Member
Maybe you just need to furr it out.
- Local time
- 10:02 AM
- Joined
- May 14, 2011
- Messages
- 17,245
- Reaction score
- 32,447
- Location
- On the Ridge, TN
Short answer: When I asked the same question in my thread, several answered that the engines
in these cars are not plumb level by intent.
Y'know, I never whipped out a bullet level and checked either of these things, come to think of it....
- Local time
- 7:02 AM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 35,601
- Reaction score
- 125,449
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
I read that since the engine sits lower at the rear, the fan sits out of plumb.....AND the radiator is tilted back to match.
- Local time
- 10:02 AM
- Joined
- May 14, 2011
- Messages
- 17,245
- Reaction score
- 32,447
- Location
- On the Ridge, TN
Where did you read this? Man, that's like "I heard...".
Daggone it, now I'm curious. Off to the garage to check!
- Local time
- 7:02 AM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 35,601
- Reaction score
- 125,449
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
Look at any V8 intake manifold. The carburetor mount is taller at the rear to compensate!
- Local time
- 7:02 AM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 35,601
- Reaction score
- 125,449
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
Not sure if you're teasing me...If so, I took the bait.
Look at any of these pictures....If you look closely, you'll see a tilt in the carburetor mounting surface.
Look at any of these pictures....If you look closely, you'll see a tilt in the carburetor mounting surface.
- Local time
- 10:02 AM
- Joined
- May 14, 2011
- Messages
- 17,245
- Reaction score
- 32,447
- Location
- On the Ridge, TN
Ok, back from the angle-finding mission - and as you might expect, Fred sits at a slight
(intentional by me) rake - about 2 degrees forward max in this case, as measured at several
points that I thought were "pure" horizontal lines on the car, anyways.
Note: all of Fred's front end sheetmetal is factory, unaltered, no indication of serious collision
history. Fred's k-frame, engine mounts and 440 are all unaltered as well. Fred is an authentic 1968
Plymouth GTX.
When I went to "measure" the engine's angle, the unintentional results were that the
440 now sits damn near plumb level - which I guess tells me the factory intended it
to have a couple degrees rearward angle to it, since mounts, frame, everything on Fred
is as built.
(Come to think of it, is that enough to fool with the factories' design intent, which probably
had something to do with oil or water distribution in the block?
Anyways, I digress....)
my attempt then was to measure the angle of the radiator support (not the radiator
itself).
Using the flat vertical surfaces of the support on either side of the radiator opening, I measured
about a 2 degree forward angle.
In other words, if Fred sat at near factory rake, the support would be close to dead plumb,
mimicking the car's body itself.
Now, keep in mind the odd little factory mounting points on the support (those little bumps
the mounting bolts pass through) probably do something in regards to the installed angle
of the factory radiator. In Fred's case, I couldn't factor those in, of course.
NOTE: I tossed the radiator angle out of this experiment on Fred because he used precious few
of those factory mounting points (like, zero of them) because I made great efforts to center
the Griffin "exact fit" 26" radiator, 3" thick core, on the centerline of the water pump when I installed
it, so as to get the factory shroud to work and give me maximum fan size possibilities.
So, my unscientific results of the experiment on Fred?
1. The factory did in fact intend for there to be a slight rearward angle on the engine.
2. The factory did in fact intend for the radiator support itself to be dead plumb vertical.
3. The above explains the often-observed difference in clearance between engine and radiator
top and bottom - and would explain why the shroud is made the way it is, as well as the
little bumps where the factory radiator mounting bolts pass through the support, I presume?
No idea if this helps at all....just what I'm seeing on Fred.
(intentional by me) rake - about 2 degrees forward max in this case, as measured at several
points that I thought were "pure" horizontal lines on the car, anyways.
Note: all of Fred's front end sheetmetal is factory, unaltered, no indication of serious collision
history. Fred's k-frame, engine mounts and 440 are all unaltered as well. Fred is an authentic 1968
Plymouth GTX.
When I went to "measure" the engine's angle, the unintentional results were that the
440 now sits damn near plumb level - which I guess tells me the factory intended it
to have a couple degrees rearward angle to it, since mounts, frame, everything on Fred
is as built.
(Come to think of it, is that enough to fool with the factories' design intent, which probably
had something to do with oil or water distribution in the block?
Anyways, I digress....)
my attempt then was to measure the angle of the radiator support (not the radiator
itself).
Using the flat vertical surfaces of the support on either side of the radiator opening, I measured
about a 2 degree forward angle.
In other words, if Fred sat at near factory rake, the support would be close to dead plumb,
mimicking the car's body itself.
Now, keep in mind the odd little factory mounting points on the support (those little bumps
the mounting bolts pass through) probably do something in regards to the installed angle
of the factory radiator. In Fred's case, I couldn't factor those in, of course.
NOTE: I tossed the radiator angle out of this experiment on Fred because he used precious few
of those factory mounting points (like, zero of them) because I made great efforts to center
the Griffin "exact fit" 26" radiator, 3" thick core, on the centerline of the water pump when I installed
it, so as to get the factory shroud to work and give me maximum fan size possibilities.
So, my unscientific results of the experiment on Fred?
1. The factory did in fact intend for there to be a slight rearward angle on the engine.
2. The factory did in fact intend for the radiator support itself to be dead plumb vertical.
3. The above explains the often-observed difference in clearance between engine and radiator
top and bottom - and would explain why the shroud is made the way it is, as well as the
little bumps where the factory radiator mounting bolts pass through the support, I presume?
No idea if this helps at all....just what I'm seeing on Fred.
Great thread! I enjoy following along.
BTW, don’t bother running a 3/8” fuel line to the carb. Only the supply line should be 3/8”. Once the fuel is under pressure, it doesn’t need as large of a line.
BTW, don’t bother running a 3/8” fuel line to the carb. Only the supply line should be 3/8”. Once the fuel is under pressure, it doesn’t need as large of a line.
I believe my mounting brackets on my factory radiator are slightly thicker at the top to lean the rad back a bit to match the engine. Mines a 22" factory rad on my 383. I had to look at it a few times to see why it was made like that then it made sense. You should see some of the old boats that had an inboard V8 engine with the rear of the engine tipped back quite a bit. The intake has like a 15-20 degree pad/spacer to compensate for the lean just like the pic you posted but alot more. Crazy **** they made back in the day!
Car is looking good man keep up the great work!
Car is looking good man keep up the great work!
- Local time
- 7:02 AM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 35,601
- Reaction score
- 125,449
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
Thank you, friend.
I'm throwing down the gauntlet.....NEXT weekend I hope to start the 383 and drive the car around the backyard. I may even be able to do it sooner.
Many months ago, FBBO member BDF6 sold me an exhaust system and was cool enough to deliver it! I will be installing that along with the headers this week. I have the drive shaft and Bouchillon kickdown cable to install. I cranked up the torsion bars a little since they were adjusted to sit with a slight rake with NO engine in place.
I'm throwing down the gauntlet.....NEXT weekend I hope to start the 383 and drive the car around the backyard. I may even be able to do it sooner.
Many months ago, FBBO member BDF6 sold me an exhaust system and was cool enough to deliver it! I will be installing that along with the headers this week. I have the drive shaft and Bouchillon kickdown cable to install. I cranked up the torsion bars a little since they were adjusted to sit with a slight rake with NO engine in place.
MoparDanMan
Well-Known Member
Congratulations on the find. They're still out there, but man are they getting hard to find.
Similar threads
