Bruzilla
Well-Known Member
- Local time
- 12:44 AM
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2012
- Messages
- 7,644
- Reaction score
- 7,817
- Location
- Orange Park, FL
Well, it took me five months to get an indictment and a warrant, but I got to see my mechanic cuffed and stuffed into the back of a Jacksonville Sheriff's Office car yesterday. I hate to see anyone go off to jail, but damn... I gave this guy every chance in the World to get his act together and square things but he just thought he could ignore the law, ignore me, and ignore everyone else he had screwed. He was charged with theft, theft by deception, larceny, fraud, and fraudulent use of a mechanics lien.
My expectations are that he's going to enter into a plea deal that will knock most of those charges out, but will end up in a probation agreement, which is what has been my goal all along. Part of his probation will be paying me restitution, and that restitution covers not only all the money I paid him but also the replacement value of all parts that are missing and all expenses incurred in getting this matter resolved, so he's going to be on my hook to the tune of a little over $10k.
So here's some lessons learned I wanted to pass along:
First, written contracts really mean nothing for us. They are written by the vendor, always favor the vendor, and when it comes to taking legal action, if it comes down to a He-Said/The-Written-Contract-Says debate, the written contract always wins. This is why it's important to record any conversations you have with your vendor. There are restrictions to recording phone conversations, but personal conversations aren't covered by those laws. Just make sure you record yourself telling them the first time that you're recording their statements and then just slip a recorder (I use an app on my phone) in your pocket every time you talk to them.
Also, check your state laws on verbal contracts. I believe they are legal in all 50, but make sure. If you and a vendor enter into a written contract to provide "X", and then he/she makes a verbal contract to provide "Y", that verbal contract supersedes the written one, but only if you can prove what the verbal contract was made... so record, record, record.
One other note on recording, it makes for great evidence. During one meeting I had with my mechanic I told him he needed to make a deadline or give me a refund, and he said not only wasn't he going to give me a refund but he would put a (mechanics) lien on my car and sell it. Now I knew this was BS as a mechanics lien applies to work being done but not paid for and not work being paid for and not done, but after doing a quick bit of checking of the Florida Codes I found out that misusing a lien, or using it as a threat, is a felony in the Sunshine State and thanks to that recording I had I was able to support that count of the indictment. If I didn't have that recording, there would be no way to prove he ever said it.
Second, document everything! I created a table in a word document that allowed me to enter the date, type, and details of every interaction I had with the vendor. Receipts are nice, but keeping a log of events enables you to show what was going on leading up to each transaction, and that's why my case succeeded where a lot of others failed.
Third, the Better Business Bureau (BBB) is one step shy of worthless. That one step is that filing a report with them enables you to further document your problems with the vendor and validate your claims against him/her. But don't expect the BBB to accomplish anything.
Fourth, be very careful about filing a civil lawsuit! I can't emphasize this one enough! This guy robbed a lot of people, and more than a few of them filed civil lawsuits only to find out that once you file a civil suit, your case cannot be made into a criminal case. You can go from criminal to civil, but not the other way. The folks who sued this guy won their judgements, but he refused to pay and once that happens you can very quickly run up more in unrecoverable legal costs trying to get them to pay than what you'll eventually get.
With a civil action, you have to pay all the legal costs (lawyer costs, filing fees, etc.), but criminal proceedings are free. With a civil judgement, the vendor may pay or not pay, but with a criminal case the vendor will be required to pay restitution, and if they fail to pay it they go to jail or back to jail. So if you can make a criminal case, make it.
Fifth, don't waste a lot of time expecting the police to get anything done on your behalf. They've got speeders, drunks, fighting couples, and dopers to deal with. Call them up, file a report, follow up after two weeks, and don't be surprised when nothing happens. Then... call your States Attorney Office and ask what they have in the way of a Consumer Crimes department or division. Most states have these. Get a hold of them and work through them to get your case made.
My expectations are that he's going to enter into a plea deal that will knock most of those charges out, but will end up in a probation agreement, which is what has been my goal all along. Part of his probation will be paying me restitution, and that restitution covers not only all the money I paid him but also the replacement value of all parts that are missing and all expenses incurred in getting this matter resolved, so he's going to be on my hook to the tune of a little over $10k.
So here's some lessons learned I wanted to pass along:
First, written contracts really mean nothing for us. They are written by the vendor, always favor the vendor, and when it comes to taking legal action, if it comes down to a He-Said/The-Written-Contract-Says debate, the written contract always wins. This is why it's important to record any conversations you have with your vendor. There are restrictions to recording phone conversations, but personal conversations aren't covered by those laws. Just make sure you record yourself telling them the first time that you're recording their statements and then just slip a recorder (I use an app on my phone) in your pocket every time you talk to them.
Also, check your state laws on verbal contracts. I believe they are legal in all 50, but make sure. If you and a vendor enter into a written contract to provide "X", and then he/she makes a verbal contract to provide "Y", that verbal contract supersedes the written one, but only if you can prove what the verbal contract was made... so record, record, record.
One other note on recording, it makes for great evidence. During one meeting I had with my mechanic I told him he needed to make a deadline or give me a refund, and he said not only wasn't he going to give me a refund but he would put a (mechanics) lien on my car and sell it. Now I knew this was BS as a mechanics lien applies to work being done but not paid for and not work being paid for and not done, but after doing a quick bit of checking of the Florida Codes I found out that misusing a lien, or using it as a threat, is a felony in the Sunshine State and thanks to that recording I had I was able to support that count of the indictment. If I didn't have that recording, there would be no way to prove he ever said it.
Second, document everything! I created a table in a word document that allowed me to enter the date, type, and details of every interaction I had with the vendor. Receipts are nice, but keeping a log of events enables you to show what was going on leading up to each transaction, and that's why my case succeeded where a lot of others failed.
Third, the Better Business Bureau (BBB) is one step shy of worthless. That one step is that filing a report with them enables you to further document your problems with the vendor and validate your claims against him/her. But don't expect the BBB to accomplish anything.
Fourth, be very careful about filing a civil lawsuit! I can't emphasize this one enough! This guy robbed a lot of people, and more than a few of them filed civil lawsuits only to find out that once you file a civil suit, your case cannot be made into a criminal case. You can go from criminal to civil, but not the other way. The folks who sued this guy won their judgements, but he refused to pay and once that happens you can very quickly run up more in unrecoverable legal costs trying to get them to pay than what you'll eventually get.
With a civil action, you have to pay all the legal costs (lawyer costs, filing fees, etc.), but criminal proceedings are free. With a civil judgement, the vendor may pay or not pay, but with a criminal case the vendor will be required to pay restitution, and if they fail to pay it they go to jail or back to jail. So if you can make a criminal case, make it.
Fifth, don't waste a lot of time expecting the police to get anything done on your behalf. They've got speeders, drunks, fighting couples, and dopers to deal with. Call them up, file a report, follow up after two weeks, and don't be surprised when nothing happens. Then... call your States Attorney Office and ask what they have in the way of a Consumer Crimes department or division. Most states have these. Get a hold of them and work through them to get your case made.
