Trick Flow 240's and rockers

[hunt2elk]

Recently had some issues with the valvetrain on my 400/500 stroker and am replacing the PRW P rocker assembly. Looking for advice on the best, easiest swap from you guys that do this everyday. This is the cam and the rockers are 1.6 ratio. I am down to 3 choices.
From what I have been reading.

The HS 70016KE are made with an "improved valve stem alignment for Edel and TF heads". They come with hold downs. It is also mentioned that "oil restrictors may be necessary to maintain oil pressure" because of the needles.

Hughes 15203 do not come with hold downs and must be ordered separately. They have 7442TF hold downs listed specifically for TF heads, but I think that is just for the longer studs, idk. These rockers are listed as fitting all OEM cast as well as alum heads. So they don't have the "improved valve stem aligement for TF heads. No bushings in the rockers.

The Mancini HS 57001-16-714K also does not have the HS "improved valve stem alignment for TF". No bushings in the rockers.

So what I gather is that the needle bearings are definitely not necessary on BB Mopar, but the 70016KE is designed for better alignment on my heads. Will the oil restriction thing need to be addressed?
Remember that I have to do this swap in my garage and never did such a thing before, and don't have access to a milling machine or whatever else may be needed to fit the hold downs, except files and a bench belt sander. With the Hughes and Mancini would a guy need an offset kit from B3 to get things lined up properly, and is something a novice should even be messing with?
One member has mentioned in a PM that he would would probably not go with the Mancini's because I have just over .600 lift cam, even though he has used them and likes them.

 

[pnora]

Call Hughe's and get their opinion.

 

[67MPRFAN]

My experience with HS rockers and hold downs was not enough side clearance with the shims they sent with there kit, I called their tech line and he sent me new shims at no charge. I know this doesn't help but thought it might help somewhat

 

[PRHeads]

The lifts shown on the cam card are for using 1.6 rockers.
It’s not over .600 lift.

Lobe lift x RR = valve lift.

 

[B3RE]

What exactly were the issues with the PRW rockers? It might be a problem that won't be solved by going to another rocker.

 

[rikkitik]

I'm pretty sure you're not interested in PRW stainless, but here is my sweep (post cam "break-in"). 1.6 ratio (cup style adjusters, per Mike's (B3RE) recommendation), TF240's, Ultradyne SFT, B3 correction kit.
The adjusters did feel "gritty" upon arrival. Disassembled them, cleaned them thoroughly, soaked them in oil overnight. 2k miles so far, no issues. No problems setting side clearance during assembly.
Re-ran valve adjustment at 1500 miles, only minor adjustments needed.

 

[451Mopar]

Ran the recommended Harlan Sharp rockers on the TF-240's and had no issues. No oil restriction needed, but that was many years ago. Not sure if the design changed?

 

[hunt2elk]

The lifts shown on the cam card are for using 1.6 rockers.
It’s not over .600 lift.

Lobe lift x RR = valve lift.

This is all Greek to me. IQ52 mentioned that to me, but maybe he looked at it wrong?

 

[hunt2elk]

Ran the recommended Harlan Sharp rockers on the TF-240's and had no issues. No oil restriction needed, but that was many years ago. Not sure if the design changed?

Was it easy enough to get setup correctly for a rookie like me?

 

[beanhead]

This is all Greek to me. IQ52 mentioned that to me, but maybe he looked at it wrong?

Your cam card shows "lobe lift" of .3640. That's the lift capability of the cam lobe itself.
They then show "gross valve lift" of .582.
Divide .582 by .3640, you get 1.6 (technically 1.59xxx but close enough) which is the rocker ratio they used for the specs.
So with a 1.5 rocker your theoretical lift is .546. It's "theoretical" because you lose a few thousandths due to pushrod/rocker deflection, angularity etc.

 

[hunt2elk]

I'm pretty sure you're not interested in PRW stainless, but here is my sweep (post cam "break-in"). 1.6 ratio, TF240's, Ultradyne SFT, B3 correction kit.

This is one thing that is really confusing me. With the HS rockers that are supposedly made for Edel. and TF heads, does a guy still have to think about the B3 kit?

 

[hunt2elk]

My experience with HS rockers and hold downs was not enough side clearance with the shims they sent with there kit, I called their tech line and he sent me new shims at no charge. I know this doesn't help but thought it might help somewhat

Yes, this is the kind of feedback I am looking for.

 

[B3RE]

This is one thing that is really confusing me. With the HS rockers that are supposedly made for Edel. and TF heads, does a guy still have to think about the B3 kit?

Yes, because it isn't about the rocker itself as much as it is about the stand location in the head. The geometry is poor because the stand location is incorrect, and the rocker is designed for the incorrect stand position, so both cylinder head and rocker are incorrect. The head can be corrected, but the rocker would have to be custom made for the corrected head, if you wanted good geometry all around. One out of two is better than none.

 

[hunt2elk]

What exactly were the issues with the PRW rockers? It might be a problem that won't be solved by going to another rocker.

We are really not sure at this point. I am in WI and the motor was built for me in CA.
Was getting a lot of valve train noise. The builder wanted me to check the preload. Took off the covers and found 2 adjusting nuts laying in the head. 5 more were loose and the remaining 9 were tight. Found 3 of the adjusters, not on those 2 missing nuts, were galled/stripped. Did the adjustment and upon restarting, it made far more noise than before. So the builder told me to take it apart. All the rods are straight. The eight lifters on the pass side were real soft whereas the 8 on the drivers side I couldn't budge by putting all my weight on them. Squeezed a couple in a vise. Took a lot of pressure before they broke loose, but then worked fine. I took several apart and see no crap or anything in them. Put them back together, submerge in oil, and they work fine.

 

[beanhead]

This is one thing that is really confusing me. With the HS rockers that are supposedly made for Edel. and TF heads, does a guy still have to think about the B3 kit?

You'll need to mock everything up first and see what kind of pattern you get. Some guys say no, some say yes. I've used and like the B3 kit, but on my current setup--Hughes 1.6s, Comp SFT cam and TF240s, the swipe pattern was less than .050" wide..so I opted to run it as is. The B3 kit works great but you'll need to hog out your rocker shaft holes, and likely the pushrod holes in the heads as well.

 

[hunt2elk]

What exactly were the issues with the PRW rockers? It might be a problem that won't be solved by going to another rocker.

I'm hoping you are the home of the B3 kits?

 

[B3RE]

I'm hoping you are the home of the B3 kits?

Your hope would be correct.

 

[rikkitik]

This is one thing that is really confusing me. With the HS rockers that are supposedly made for Edel. and TF heads, does a guy still have to think about the B3 kit?

It depends.....
I read the tech articles posted on Mike's site, and believed what he explained, and demonstrated.
Some people don't agree with his recommendations, and get satisfactory results.
I am VERY happy to have read the information provided, and can't argue with the results. Sure, it's "only" a street/strip build, but I'm not in the "close enough" camp. Little details tend to bug me, so I went with Mike's kit, and am VERY pleased with how my engine runs.
No real, "have to's", just choices.

 

[B3RE]

You'll need to mock everything up first and see what kind of pattern you get. Some guys say no, some say yes. I've used and like the B3 kit, but on my current setup--Hughes 1.6s, Comp SFT cam and TF240s, the swipe pattern was less than .050" wide..so I opted to run it as is. The B3 kit works great but you'll need to hog out your rocker shaft holes, and likely the pushrod holes in the heads as well.

The Trick Flows shouldn't need any pushrod tunnel work, but yes, it may need a shaft mod for the offset needed in the kit. Depends on the rocker used.

 

[65Fury440]

Ive used Mancini rockers 5 years with a SFT .671 lift cam and TF heads, shifting around 7k rpms. (once 8500 rpms)
Mr Porter said the TF springs were heavier than needed for a SFT, around 440 lbs
AndyF sold them to me from his test engine, said the sweep is fine on the TF heads, looks dandy to me.
I just went to a solid roller, and after speaking to a rep at Harland Sharp, decided to have them bushed for $240 at RAS ( great outfit btw, one week turnaround).
The rep said the bodies of those rocker arms are good to around 1200 lbs, and are used in another Chevy application for those pressures. He went on to say the weak part becomes the un-bushed arms on the shafts, over 600 lbs there becomes the possibility of galling.
I went with some Hughes hardened shafts with banana grooves, along with the bushings, just for insurance.
Any of your choices would be fine, and the Mancinis would probably last a good long time for your deal.