1970 Dodge Charger 440 4bll carburetor questions

[matchek]

Backfire out of Exhaust drivers side with moderately strong pedal. The car fine before I took it to him and I didn't notice any backfire but I seldom hit the gas hard. When a friend hit the gas hard last year I didn't get a backfire.

I guess if it was your car you would pick up the car immediately and take it somewhere else?

 

[matchek]

That could be true about the brake booster. The main reason why I took it to the mechanic is because of weak brakes and low pedal. He replaced the drums and shoes but the brake performance didnt change. He said that I had a warped brake pedal pivot that was not engaging the rear brake and needed a new brake assembly which I found a used one on eBay which is liked but not install yet.

 

[matchek]

I have what might be a dumb question. As you know the car is a 1970, but the engine block code says it is a 73 440 engine. If I was to replace the ignition system (rotor, wires, spark plugs (and gap), should I look up by 1970 or 1973 or does it depend? I have the full service manual for a 1970 Dodge Charger, but now not sure how much the engine portion will help me because the engine is a 1973.

 

[matchek]

This may be a dumb question, but could a cylinder leakage/ compression test mess up an intake gasket or another gasket? The mechanic said all compression was good but was wondering if something is messed up now.

Thanks Kern on the not hooking up the spark plug wires correctly.

The second owner told me that the engine was converted to electronic ignition - this may be a dumb question but what does that entail please? When an engine is converted from standard to electronic, what was removed and what was added please? I guess that has me stumped.

Quite frankly, I am not familar with electronic ignition is antique cars.

 

[RayHemi]

I have what might be a dumb question. As you know the car is a 1970, but the engine block code says it is a 73 440 engine. If I was to replace the ignition system (rotor, wires, spark plugs (and gap), should I look up by 1970 or 1973 or does it depend? I have the full service manual for a 1970 Dodge Charger, but now not sure how much the engine portion will help me because the engine is a 1973.

That may be a very good question. Swaps are normally done underneath the accessories so generally speaking it shouldn't effect anything you're doing right now. However, since 72' was a very nasty year, you may want to compare compression ratios for 70' and 73'. While you're at it look at manifold crossover heating and other emissions equipment differences like California spec and such. But don't get all tangled up. Your car needs less and not more. Do this mostly for reference. A difference in PCV systems would have shown up earlier but just the same for your own reference, compare. You're not necessarily trying to fix everything, you just need it to work and old cars want attention.

 

[RayHemi]

This may be a dumb question, but could a cylinder leakage/ compression test mess up an intake gasket or another gasket? The mechanic said all compression was good but was wondering if something is messed up now.

Thanks Kern on the not hooking up the spark plug wires correctly.

The second owner told me that the engine was converted to electronic ignition - this may be a dumb question but what does that entail please? When an engine is converted from standard to electronic, what was removed and what was added please? I guess that has me stumped.

Quite frankly, I am not familar with electronic ignition is antique cars.

That's not a dumb question but it is a wide one. There were so many ways to convert your ignition system over to electronics and so many ways to define it that just the story alone is a maze. In the long run no one (manufacturers) ended up with the best system (this was stop-gap for everyone) but there were some who qualify for the worst. Ford's "thick film" was a good bad example. Remember that also during the time everything else was converting (electronic control). So lets bring in the computers, and this is where you should come in. Basically we're bringing more accuracy to electrical power distribution in the secondary circuit. We're tossing the points and maybe upgrading the condenser with a component(s) that depends on chip micro processing for control rather than physical tolerances. It has gotten a whole lot better over the years. This is to a point where almost anything you choose would work Ok. Then generally the more you spend the happier you'll be. But you'd almost have to really try in order to pick up something bad. So for what you're looking at, it could be a distributor replacement or you might find the changes made beneath the cap (look for a brand name). maybe a wire or two running from the body or cap to a module of some kind. At any rate don't reuse anything. Rip it all out and start anew. Heat destroys electronics, especially the older stuff.

 

[Geoff 2]

Worn cam lobes may not show up with a compression test. The engine is cranking slowly, not the same as higher rpms when being driven. Check the dist cap/rotor for carbon tracking. If the plug leads are long enough, swap the left & right banks over & see if the problem moves to the other side. Otherwise, check resistance of leads, & check spark plug resistance of centre electrodes. Non-resistor plugs, should be close to zero. Res plugs, 3k-8k ohms. Scrape carbon from electrode tip to make a good connection. Even this is not a definitive test for plugs, could measure ok & break down under load.

 

[Geoff 2]

Spark plugs. Or.......swap left bank with right bank & see if the problem moves.

 

[matchek]

Thank you all - great info. So the car is a 1970 , but has a 1973 engine, if I was to order a rotor, cap, wires, and plugs from Rock Auto, would I order for 1970 or 1973?

 

[Don Frelier]

1973 but except for the plugs everything is likely the same.

I would suggest changing 1 thing at a time.
Then we will all know the root cause.
The other problem some encounter is they change 6 things and do 1 incorrectly or have a bad "new" part which makes troubleshooting Even more difficult

 

[RayHemi]

You could go buy a whole lot of stuff. You could also end up with a lot of wasted time. If you were to follow all - and I do mean all of the advice and suggestions that have been given on this forum, I'm certain following advice given here you would spend under half the time required to resolve your issue than by trying several things all at a time. I haven't seen one bad suggestion for this problem. You should just arrange them to the best effect and then follow through. With some things you just have to try and see. But not with this problem. Your 73' motor ran OK before? Pull a plug and get a match. Can you read a plug to know if that's where you should start?

This isn't a problem that just comes and goes. It's always there wherever you go. Running outside of maintenance schedules? Start there. FSM will have that duplicated for both years I'm sure.

 

[Some Car Guy]

That poor car is sooooooo messed up, it’s hard to look at. That’s just sad and the guy should’ve sent you away since he has about negative 8 on a ten scale of mopar knowledge. You desperately need a mopar guy to spend about 2 hours going over that disaster. Plus maybe a carb rebuild.

I’ll throw out some stuff I didn’t see mentioned that you also need to explore on top of the excellent advice already doled out.

make sure ecu box, the blue one, has a good ground. I don’t think that is your issue, but it can cause all sorts of frustrations if it loses ground intermittently. I like to run a dedicated ground to it, but some guys don’t and are fine. I just really despise walking.

charger could have vacuum leak in headlight door system

a good replacement carb if needed would be an edelbrock avs2. Or contact a place like Scott Smith Harms for an original rebuilt avs carb. You don’t have an original car, so I’d go with a new Eddy and call it good.

id be concerned after seeing the engine bay abortions about that intake not having a block off for the heat crossover. that could lead to a warped aluminum intake manifold and you don’t need the heat open anyway since you have an electric choke.

I run Stabil 360 to prevent ethanol problems, but it also acts as a fuel system cleaner. No telling how cruddy that carb is.

plus all the other stuff that was said and that was a lot.

you need a mopar assist in the worst way. Todd Marsh is who you should Google and ask him who to send the car to. He’s busy so don’t bog him down with asking about all this stuff. Just tell him you were told on FBBO that you need a real mopar guy to fix this thing and I’m sure he knows somebody in your area.

 

[matchek]

Thank you Some Car Guy for the and helpful infothe Mopar company in Linwood.

Do you think the engine bay is that bad? The reason why I ask is according to the second owner its was done 35 years and the car was running fine up to a week ago. From my understanding it is a 73 440 with a Edelbrock carb and converted to electronic ignition. But who knows who did the work. I appreciate the help and I want to get it the best it can be.

It is a 1970 Charger - the headlight door system is all electric and works fine - it was broked but needed a new relay.

 

[Don Frelier]

That poor car is sooooooo messed up, it’s hard to look at. That’s just sad and the guy should’ve sent you away since he has about negative 8 on a ten scale of mopar knowledge. You desperately need a mopar guy to spend about 2 hours going over that disaster. Plus maybe a carb rebuild.

I’ll throw out some stuff I didn’t see mentioned that you also need to explore on top of the excellent advice already doled out.

make sure ecu box, the blue one, has a good ground. I don’t think that is your issue, but it can cause all sorts of frustrations if it loses ground intermittently. I like to run a dedicated ground to it, but some guys don’t and are fine. I just really despise walking.

charger could have vacuum leak in headlight door system

a good replacement carb if needed would be an edelbrock avs2. Or contact a place like Scott Smith Harms for an original rebuilt avs carb. You don’t have an original car, so I’d go with a new Eddy and call it good.

id be concerned after seeing the engine bay abortions about that intake not having a block off for the heat crossover. that could lead to a warped aluminum intake manifold and you don’t need the heat open anyway since you have an electric choke.

I run Stabil 360 to prevent ethanol problems, but it also acts as a fuel system cleaner. No telling how cruddy that carb is.

plus all the other stuff that was said and that was a lot.

you need a mopar assist in the worst way. Todd Marsh is who you should Google and ask him who to send the car to. He’s busy so don’t bog him down with asking about all this stuff. Just tell him you were told on FBBO that you need a real mopar guy to fix this thing and I’m sure he knows somebody in your area.

I don't think it is so terrible.

A couple things I noticed:

1. I like to use the vacuum advance on a street car.
2. Not sure where the PCV valve is connected? It should be in the front of the carb.
3. The transmission kickdown linkage needs to be adjusted closer to the carb stud. The manifold is taller and they may have run out of adjustment threads.
4. If you can find someone to check and clean the carburetor I would do that first before just buying a new one.
5. I wouldn't be too concerned about the heat crossover being blocked off as it has headers and what looks to be low backpressure exhuast.

 

[matchek]

Thank you - makes sense.

By the way, if it is a late 80s Edelbrock. I was wondering your thoughts . Granted if a quick cleaning work that would be great, but if I needed it refurbished, wouldn't it not be better to just buy a new one for $$460 then have it refurbished for $300 and still worry about an old one?

Also how did you kow about Todd Marsh?

 

[Some Car Guy]

I don't think it is so terrible.

A couple things I noticed:

1. I like to use the vacuum advance on a street car.
2. Not sure where the PCV valve is connected? It should be in the front of the carb.
3. The transmission kickdown linkage needs to be adjusted closer to the carb stud. The manifold is taller and they may have run out of adjustment threads.
4. If you can find someone to check and clean the carburetor I would do that first before just buying a new one.
5. I wouldn't be too concerned about the heat crossover being blocked off as it has headers and what looks to be low backpressure exhuast.

for a restored car, it’s atrocious. That many loose ends and details missed is unacceptable for a car that has been redone. You see stuff like this on a driver from back in the day that had many hands under the hood over the years. A resto should have one guy or a team that puts it all back right.

you absolutely should be concerned about the heat coming into an aluminum manifold, both for the warpage and the power loss. That’s one of the finer points that need to be taught to newcomers. It’s a simple thing and easy to overlook, or people just want a car back on the road and skip getting a blocked valley pan or putting something in there on an open.

as a practical matter, that was one for his reference for down the road. There is so much low hanging fruit to knock out and see gains, plus that may have been addressed properly.

 

[Some Car Guy]

Thank you - makes sense.

By the way, if it is a late 80s Edelbrock. I was wondering your thoughts . Granted if a quick cleaning work that would be great, but if I needed it refurbished, wouldn't it not be better to just buy a new one for $$460 then have it refurbished for $300 and still worry about an old one?

Also how did you kow about Todd Marsh?

its up to you, I’ll tell you the avs2 would be an upgrade overall. but is way more than just tossing a kit in what you have. Annular boosters are nice.

something else to consider is if you have a good heat shield spacer under the carb. I like the 3/8 style ones, edelbrock makes an open and a divided one, plus others are out there. It’s a must to keep fuel from boiling in the carb.

personally I would out a flare nut on the hard line into the carb. I don’t like hose slipped over line if I can avoid it. Especially with a threaded hole right there. If that came loose or the rubber line dies, you’ve got the makings of a barbecue on your hands. Just another detail somebody glossed over to get the job done quickly.

I know told marsh because he’s been around for decades. I’ve bought heads etc from him, he’s well known for performance mopar engines. He’s in NC and should know somebody that can sort this car out.

 

[Don Frelier]

for a restored car, it’s atrocious. That many loose ends and details missed is unacceptable for a car that has been redone. You see stuff like this on a driver from back in the day that had many hands under the hood over the years. A resto should have one guy or a team that puts it all back right.

you absolutely should be concerned about the heat coming into an aluminum manifold, both for the warpage and the power loss. That’s one of the finer points that need to be taught to newcomers. It’s a simple thing and easy to overlook, or people just want a car back on the road and skip getting a blocked valley pan or putting something in there on an open.

as a practical matter, that was one for his reference for down the road. There is so much low hanging fruit to knock out and see gains, plus that may have been addressed properly.

Well I don't consider it a restored car.
It's a 318 car with an incorrect year 440 an aluminum intake, headers, electronic ignition and a color change.
Nothing wrong with any of that but it's certainly not "restored".

 

[Some Car Guy]

Well I don't consider it a restored car.
It's a 318 car with an incorrect year 440 an aluminum intake, headers, electronic ignition and a color change.
Nothing wrong with any of that but it's certainly not "restored".

What else would it be? Car has been taken apart, painted, engine changed and rebuilt etc. if that’s not a restored car, then what else would it be? Parsing words like that is silly, a car doesn’t have to be nut and bolt correct to be restored.

you can have a hamfisted resto, or an OE gold one. It’s still a restoration of a worn car.

 

[kiwigtx]

Backfire in the exhaust and he wants to put a Holley carb on? Time for a better mechanic.

Maybe the mechanic in question is also the Doctor looking after Johnny Dangerously's mother.