440 Highway temps

[j-c-c-62]

220 degrees at the pump housing is normal?

You are reading 220 at the engine, which I suspect we can agree is on the hot side and can be defined as a hot engine, as it's an engine attached part, and less than 24"? away on radiator inlet hose you are reading 180 which is the normal part, that variation is indeed "magical" and the dilemma here I suspect. Let me toss in a little math to spice things up, that is a 40 degree unexplained measured temp drop in a very short distance of normal plumbing.
Reading is certainly one aspect here, and reading comprehension another, while we are tossing jabs about.

 

[dadsbee]

That is not disputed, I and others all read the same comment, but fact remains he was parked ,engine was at idle, and under no load and all recorded temps were normal.
So what magic happens to make a 'hot" engine read normal?

You and Renton need to start a tic tock channel together...

 

[j-c-c-62]

You and Renton need to start a tic tock channel together...

So you have tapped out of the discussion I take it?

 

[dadsbee]

So you have tapped out of the discussion I take it?

I have better things to do while at camp.....

 

[j-c-c-62]

I have better things to do while at camp.....

We agree.

 

[GTXDAN]

On my 70 GTX with a new engine, all new components in cooling system the temperature showed hot on factory gauge even after changing temp sender, so I installed a Autometer temp gauge and it was running almost perfect. Oil pressure gauge was showing low too so I installed new one and it was fine too. Don't know how far I would trust 50 + yr old gauges.

 

[zombezoo]

On my 70 GTX with a new engine, all new components in cooling system the temperature showed hot on factory gauge even after changing temp sender, so I installed a Autometer temp gauge and it was running almost perfect. Oil pressure gauge was showing low too so I installed new one and it was fine too. Don't know how far I would trust 50 + yr old gauges.

I'm using the factory gauge, a brand new coolant temp sensor connected to a fuel injection system, and an IR thermometer. The IR and the CTS both roughly agree on the temp. The second line off the coolest point on the factory gauge roughly aligns with 180 on the CTS so I don't think this is a sensor issue

 

[zombezoo]

You are reading 220 at the engine, which I suspect we can agree is on the hot side and can be defined as a hot engine, as it's an engine attached part, and less than 24"? away on radiator inlet hose you are reading 180 which is the normal part, that variation is indeed "magical" and the dilemma here I suspect. Let me toss in a little math to spice things up, that is a 40 degree unexplained measured temp drop in a very short distance of normal plumbing.
Reading is certainly one aspect here, and reading comprehension another, while we are tossing jabs about.

The coolant temp sensor for the fuel injection, the factory sending unit for the gauge and the IR all seem to be saying the same thing. I suppose the question is, what is a normal reading for highway speeds on the factory gauge? Half way? 2/3?
Based on what I have read others say, it seems there are vehicles here that run roughly on the thermostat temp under all conditions. Even with AC on. The creeping gauge did not seem normal with the 180 thermostat, I would expect the hottest temps to read roughly 180-190. Is that incorrect?

 

[Geoff 2]

I would suspect the 'recored' radiator. At 70 mph, there are twice as many heat-producing-power strokes than at 35 mph.....but only the same coolant volume/capacity to remove the extra heat. The efficiency of radiator cores varies. Another cheaper, simpler fix might be to go a smaller w/pump pulley to force more coolant through the rad.

www.stewartcomponents.com

 

[multimopes]

Did you ever test your T-stat by putting it in a pot of water and slowly raise the temperature while using a gun & a manual thermometer? I did this a few years back with 3 stats in there, (all were new) and well-known brands. Well, I found out just how crappy things can be today. One stat didn't open at all, the other two were questionable at best as one wouldn't open more than halfway and the 3rd didn't open until well past the temp it was labeled as. Prayers sent!

 

[Black_Sheep]

Did you install the recommended thermostat for a high volume water pump? The instructions with my Milodon pump specifies a Robert Shaw balanced flow thermostat, but they are available in other brands as well. Flowkooler and Mr Gasket are two alternatives that come to mind…

 

[#41]

Yes it is normal for a car to run at 180-190 under all conditions when everything is right. Of course, there are variations based on where the water temp is taken, the accuracy of the gauge(s), and (these days) the accuracy of the thermostat opening and closing mechanics.

Not all overheat issues are faults in the cooling system. Timing and fuel ratios factor in, more so at higher speeds/loads. You seem to be a data driven thinker: You can eliminate the possibility of an intake manifold vacuum leak causing one or two lean cylinders by driving it on the highway and then immediately pulling all 8 plugs and reading them. Your efi setup is probably throttle-body style and it will not pick up and adjust for variations in individual cylinder fuel ratios.

Next... what is your max timing all-in?

 

[RJRENTON]

So you have tapped out of the discussion I take it?

Perhaps I should reiterate my offer to explain the fundamental principles of thermodynamics.......but after listening to the "audience" most seem to not want to or understand simple dynamics and chastise me for my efforts.......oh well......I'll just express my thoughts when/if necessary......and everyone can continue to believe what they choose.......just my opinion........
BOB RENTON

 

[khryslerkid]

Fan shroud?

 

[dadsbee]

I'll jump back in one more time. The only temp that is "high" is the water pump housing. Rad cap is not puking, etc. What are the IF temperature on the heater hose lines?

If they are low as well, like the pump output, the water pump housing is absorbing heat from the engine block, or has it's bearings on the way out.

 

[zombezoo]

Did you install the recommended thermostat for a high volume water pump? The instructions with my Milodon pump specifies a Robert Shaw balanced flow thermostat, but they are available in other brands as well. Flowkooler and Mr Gasket are two alternatives that come to mind…

Wasn't tracking the factory RV unit was high volume. It's the best quality rock auto had. Will check this out as well

 

[zombezoo]

Perhaps I should reiterate my offer to explain the fundamental principles of thermodynamics.......but after listening to the "audience" most seem to not want to or understand simple dynamics and chastise me for my efforts.......oh well......I'll just express my thoughts when/if necessary......and everyone can continue to believe what they choose.......just my opinion........
BOB RENTON

I will see if I can find your previous posts. I do actually read the posts you take the time to share tech info.

 

[zombezoo]

Fan shroud?

Yes factory. With a properly installed 7 blade fan and clutch. Idle and low speed temps are fine which as I understand it, is where problems would occur with a bad fan clutch, missing shroud, or improperly aligned fan would occur.

 

[zombezoo]

I'll jump back in one more time. The only temp that is "high" is the water pump housing. Rad cap is not puking, etc. What are the IF temperature on the heater hose lines?

If they are low as well, like the pump output, the water pump housing is absorbing heat from the engine block, or has it's bearings on the way out.

I will circle back on all of these. I decided to pull the heads for a long planned upgrade and will address these other questions while it's apart. I'm going to start another thread with what I found on disassembly.

 

[zombezoo]

Update:
I pulled the passenger head as part of an upgrade.
Bolts were not all equal effort to remove, many did not make the "snap" noise when the bolts were loosened.
Head gasket was a Chrysler steel type, seemed like it was starting to leak between two of the cylinders.
Also interesting, front two cylinders have dark exhaust valves and back two have white exhaust valves.
Engine does not emit visible smoke but it does darken plugs quickly. I suspect the seals are dried up.

Perhaps the extended mid rpm runs were pushing little bits of air into the cooling system. Will be interesting to see if the problem goes away after the head swap.