1. Dibbons

    Dibbons Well-Known Member

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    I did not put this in general thread section on purpose, but forum referees can move it if they so desire.

    I won't know for sure until tomorrow morning, but I believe I strained my lower back. One front tire on the '96 Dakota had 10 pounds less air than the others so I pulled it off at home. Instead of using the wimpy factory lug wrench, I brought out my extra large star wrench.

    I could just barely remove the theft-proof nut with the special key. Then I struggled like hell to break loose the first regular lug nut. The second regular lug nut would not budge, but my back was about to snap in half. Forget this, I brought out my Craftsman 1/2" breaker bar and six-sided 3/4" socket. Not much better, I could feel my back straining as I successfully removed the remainder of the lug nuts. No way an average female could have changed this tire. And with the provided factory lug wrench, I may have failed as well.

    My owner's manual specifies tire lug torque specs at 85-115 ft. lbs. That seems like an extreme range for such a critical item. Anyhow, I recently purchased a four-tire set of new Michelin tires at a local chain tire store. Don't remember if the tires have been rotated on their premises for the first time or if the tires still remain as initially installed. Regardless, I hate to see tire "tech's" using the same impact wrench to remove/install tires on all customer vehicles. Ought to be a law (there are laws about tire pressures). My poor aching back.

    lug wrench.JPG Dakota factory lug torque.JPG
     
  2. Fran Blacker

    Fran Blacker FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    If that one was blasted, 3 more to go! I'd go back to tire shop and have them break them loose. Then hand them star wrench to snug the nuts then torque wrench.
     
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    • moes

      moes Well-Known Member

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      At my buddies shop he uses torque sticks (they come in different foot pound ratings) with his impact gun on tire nuts. It limits how much torque you can apply when using a impact gun. I guess they do not use them!!!
       
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      • F4R/T

        F4R/T Well-Known Member

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        Torque sticks work pretty good, I use both the sticks and the wrench and never have a foul word on my stuff
         
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        • bm02tj

          bm02tj Well-Known Member

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          Over tightened is dangerous
           
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          • 493 Mike

            493 Mike FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            I always tell them to use a real torque wrench, I'm the customer!
            Mike
             
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            • Jerry Hall

              Jerry Hall FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              I changed many tires on my Viper when I was racing the road courses in the southeast. I always torqued the wheels to 100 ft.lbs. That is not extreme and as hard as you described to get off. Sounds they laid on it hard with the impact. The tire shop I use now uses the torque sticks. I was told the color marks indicate the torque.
               
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              • alfaitalia

                alfaitalia FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                Yep...overtightened is more dangerous than under tightened. When the lugs are lose you get plenty of warning in the form of noise and shaking....over tight and "BANG"....the wheels off! First thing I do when I get home from the tyre place is recheck with my torque wrench.
                 
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                • kiwigtx

                  kiwigtx Trendsetter Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  My buddy Cliff always uses a torque wrench to finish lug nuts ...on all cars, no matter how unappealing they might be.
                   
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                  • 69a100

                    69a100 Well-Known Member

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                    You should let your weight loosen the lugs instead of jackin your back! This is why you stand and bounce on the end of a breaker bar so that doesn't happen, or am I the only person in the world that thinks outside the box on making a job easier than it has to be?
                     
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                    • kiwigtx

                      kiwigtx Trendsetter Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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                      Don't use your back like a crane.
                       
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                      • 1 Wild R/T

                        1 Wild R/T FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                        I've always stepped on the lug wrench, but when the idiot with an impact over does it even jumping up & down on the lug wrench can fail..

                        Back in January I was in Austin working at a facility, my rental blew the right rear tire... I attempted to change it & was literally jumping on the lug wrench... 250# on a about 16" long bar.... It wouldn't budge... Called the rental car company... They send a tow truck, he broke out his big breaker bar & eventually he was jumping on that 24" bar.... He was bigger than me so 280+... In the end the rental SUV went away on the tow truck & I got another car... Wasted about 2.5 hrs of my time...
                         
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                        • w.Hudson

                          w.Hudson Well-Known Member

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                          At my shop we use torque sticks and a torque wrench on all wheels. No exceptions.

                          No way would I want to deal with a wheel off situation or an angry customer with over tightened lug nuts.
                           
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                          • kiwigtx

                            kiwigtx Trendsetter Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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                            just checking here.... left hand threads ??? Seen idiots doing it wrong in the past. :rolleyes:
                             
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                            • kramer

                              kramer Well-Known Member

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                              I have many horror stories of taking vehicles in to get new tires or tire work done and have destroyed lug nuts, wheels beatup or they are way overtightened and tires don't have the correct air pressure so anymore I take my wheel/tires off of my car load them up in the pickup and take them to the tire shop and I have had way way less problems doing it this way.
                               
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                              • MoparLeo

                                MoparLeo NRA BENEFACTOR LEVEL LIFE MEMBER FBBO Gold Member

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                                First. The first thing that I did as a store manager for one of the worlds largest tire co. was throw away torque-sticks. They require too many things to be done correctly to be of any accuracy. Basically the same thing as a un-calibrated torque wrench.
                                Must use the same gun, must have a regulated, dedicated airline. must have the same grip pressure every time, ( for you gun guys, difference when shooting a semi-auto pistol with a locked grip or a limp grip ) lugs, studs, mounting faces must be clean, dirt, rust free. Star pattern. These things take a little more time and shops are usually in a hurry to get you out of there.
                                They were designed to prevent overtightening, especially by inexperienced installers and are not necessarily accurate or consistent. Apparently it is too complicated to use quality torque-wrenches and Properly train people how to use them . I see many videos and on television car shows where they use torque wrenches but do not use them properly. No different than torquing head bolts or any other engine fastener. You do not use quick, jerky motions to force a "click" if you use a clicker type. That is another good reason to use a quality "beam" type wrench. for engine work. You have to go slow to get an accurate reading.
                                Production shops are geared towards speed not so much for accuracy. They would rather replace a broken stud than have a wheel come off your car.
                                Best to trust yourself fpr your safety than someone else.
                                Just take a little time when you have any service requiring the wheels to come off and when you get home, loosen and re-torque your wheels yourself. Also re-check the tire pressures with your own gauge so you get an accurate baseline for when you do your regular tire pressure checks ( you do them don't you?).
                                Your safety is your responsibility.
                                 
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                                • 69a100

                                  69a100 Well-Known Member

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                                  Better yet! I'd do that right there in front of the shops overhead door before I even leave the lot. I'd really hate to have to drive back to the shop and bitch at them that you can't get the lugs loose!
                                   
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                                  • Under Pressure

                                    Under Pressure FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                                    I agree, and at 62 I won’t stop wrenching, but when it comes to pulling wheels it’s always a 4-way and my foot
                                     
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                                    • 67belvedere/225

                                      67belvedere/225 Well-Known Member

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                                      in my shop i torque all wheels by hand , i get so many that are over tighten . especially the german cars
                                      that are bolts and not nuts.i remember last year a tire shop (and they even had a radio show on sat am)
                                      the news showed the mechanic blasting on the nuts with a short impact socket full crank.
                                       
                                    • Ranger16

                                      Ranger16 Well-Known Member

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                                      I had that happen many years ago. The shop also did truck tires and I'm sure they used the same impact to torque my wheels. Damn near killed myself trying to remove one. I had to go back and have THEM retorque 'em.

                                      When I bought new tires for the Road Runner at Discount Tire, I caught the kid attempting to pry the center cap off my Cragars. I had to stop him and tell him that they where screwed on from behind. Even after saving it, I lost one on the road a few months later. Probably didn't tighten the screws properly.

                                      Then, the last time I replaced the tireds on my daily driver (again at Discount Tire), they stripped 2 lug studs. The only way to do that is by putting the lug in the socket and playing NASCAR pit crew. I'm done with Discount Tire.
                                       
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                                      • Longknife

                                        Longknife Well-Known Member

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                                        I worked as a professional mechanic for 35 years, First 10 at Chry-Ply dealerships and last 25 at a package delivery company. At the dealerships I prepped a lot of new cars and would just use a 4 way on each nut, no torque wrench. At the Delivery company I probably changed over 12 tire/wheels a WEEK (average). That's 625 wheels in a year and 15,600 wheels in the 25 years I worked there. It was probably much more as I didn't include wheels I pulled on flats or brake jobs or inspections. I used a 3/4 inch drive impact to change these. Never lost a wheel! About 5 years before I retired I was supplied with a torque wrench and instructed to torque EVERY lug nut. My boss visited the shop a month later and asked to see the torque wrench, I got it out and it was still in the original white Styrofoam packing. He said I should at least get it out and dirty it up some!!!:lol:
                                         
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