How to build a high revving 440?

[Paul_G]

What needs to change to make a big engine spin to much higher rpms, like 6500 or so. Not looking for a build recipe, although that would be nice. What needs to change in theory? Big blocks are known for low end torque. What does it take to make it spin much higher?

 

[493 Mike]

I would recommend a stroker kit with lighter rods and pistons and aftermarket main cap bolts or studs. I know my 493 really "woke up" with my install.
Mike

 

[fishmens67]

I would recommend a stroker kit with lighter rods and pistons and aftermarket main cap bolts or studs. I know my 493 really "woke up" with my install.
Mike

This and a cylinder head that will support it.
RPM is one thing, making horsepower at high RPM's is another

 

[RemCharger]

I couldn't find it in search, but there's a thread about 700hp 440s. Did I build one? Maybe but the heads are probably overkill for the cube.
I've seen one built with stock port Victor's and a victor intake/ 4150 carb

 

[RemCharger]

Oh, and 6500 is not high. That's motor home short block territory. But you need a camshaft to get there.. A 528 mopar will hang it's tongue out at 6400

 

[Geoff 2]

The 440 is a great foundation for a high revving engine because it comes with so many 'built in' features:
- block is skirted for extra strength
- 5 head bolts per cyl
- small main brg size
- shaft rocker system, more stable with higher spring pressures needed for higher rpms.
- long rods/short stroke favours high rpm

 

[Geoff 2]

The 440 is a great foundation for a high revving engine because it comes with so many 'built in' features:
- block is skirted for extra strength
- 5 head bolts per cyl
- small main brg size
- shaft rocker system, more stable with higher spring pressures needed for higher rpms.
- long rods/short stroke favours high rpm

 

[451Mopar]

6500 rpm in a drag/bracket type car is not a big deal. 6500 sustained, like in a boat it harder.
The short block is pretty easy. Lighter pistons help, you can improve the oiling system easy too.
To make power at the higher RPMs you need good cylinder heads, and real good valve train with a good cam lobe design.
When I built the 4.15" stroked 400 block (499"), I had breakage and surging issues with the valve train.
Upgraded the valve springs, used max wedge rocker shaft blocks, and 3/8"x0.120" pushrods. The engine spins 7,000 easy, but I want to try a different exhaust lobe that would be a bit easier opening

 

[451Mopar]

On the exhaust lobe, I forgot the exhaust valve has to open against the cylinder chamber pressure plus the valve spring pressure which is pretty hard on the rockers and shafts when using a fast opening lobe profile.

 

[71Beeper]

@Al Alguire who just posted as a new member in the Welcome Wagon has lot of experience with high revving 440's.
His many postings over at Moparts are good reads.
Hopefully he will chime in.
His 64 is badass!
Here's a video of it.

540" Big block that spins to 7700 RPM's

 

[lewtot184]

I would take as much recprocating weight out as possible and change the main caps.

 

[padam]

I think the oiling system and valve train are most important if you want to spin it to 6500. (Making power there is another thing. )

I run a pretty mild combo but it will go thru the traps at 6200 +. Stock
64 413 block, crank, rods (arp bolts), stock replacement pistons.

I do use full groove mains, high volume oil pump, 7 qt pan. Oil pressure is steady 60 psi at the stripe.

Hydraulic cam with Rhoads lifters, stamped rockers, single valve springs. I do have machined blocks instead of the cast stands so that may help.

 

[dvw]

How high? Much past 7200 11/32" stems, titainium valves and light retainers will give you longer life. Longer rods allow a higher pin location in the piston. That allows the piston to be pretty light. Stock bob weight for a 440 is around 2900 grams. Its posible to get down to below 2300 grams with shelf parts. 600 grams is 21.4 oz per piston and rod assy. Proper bearing clearance with a pump and pan to feed it. That being said. With a decent pan and windage tray we take LY rod stuff with heavy pistons to 6000. With light pistons to 6800. Stroker cranks increase the piston speed. So that will reduce wher you want to run some. Stuff like mentioned above, 8000+ is doable.
Doug

 

[Dodge Bros]

I have always been curious the engineer’s did to the NASCAR 426 Hemi’s to sustain the heavy internals they had back in the day running continuous high RPM’s for 400 or 500 miles? Never really seen much on that, I know some didn’t make it too. Lol

In a big block you really don’t need much of anything to turn 6500 occasionally other than enough spring pressure to control the valve terrain and a decent amount of oil clearance (.002” + )with good oil pressure.

Everything you can do to keep the engine fed with oil, .0025” or more clearance's, keep the caps from walking around, lightest weight internals you can afford, and do something like a short fill so the cylinders don’t flex, all help on higher RPM’s and make 600 to 700 HP. The less RPM, the longer everything lasts, don’t over spin your engine unless you really need too. As RPM’s increase beyond 7000 aluminum rods or main caps really help.

We used to go thru the traps at 6500 with our 440. Ran it like that for years. Shifted at 6200. It had LY rods, heavy speed pro domes, high volume oil pump and an 8qrt pan, full grooved mains and of course a balanced rotating assembly. Nothing fancy. One weekend at an 1/8 mile track I tried going thru the traps in 2nd gear, because I felt like I was shift right at the mph cones. In second gear it was at 8K at the stripes! The fairly gentle Cam motion roller cam seemed to never miss a beat. But I think I held my breath after 7000 LOL. 3 or 4 passes like that, but got eliminated early, which was probably a good thing or we would have brought the engine home in a box.

 

[451Mopar]

Ti valves at nearly $150 each and copper beryilium seats at about $50 each is outside my budget.
Thats is $3,200 in valves/seats alone. Almost the entire cost of a stroker shortblock.

I am running the PAC-1326 valve springs that are pricy at $576 a set with the factory stainless Victor MW valves.
That is what came with the Hughes CNC ported MW victor heads, flow about 400 cfm.

 

[padam]

Andy F’s book has a lot of good info.

My big takeaway, and this may be incorrect, is that the more air you flow through the engine, the higher the power band.

 

[6PKRTSE]

I shift my basically stock 440 Sixpack other then camshaft at 6200-6400 ish. At 6500+ it flings one belt or another. I shift my 528 Hemi at 7600.

 

[Paul_G]

To sum up what I am reading here:

Valve train;
Lighter is better, titanium retainers and keepers if the budget allows
Lighter valves if budget allows
Stiffer valve springs a must
stronger shaft blocks

Rotating assembly;
Longer rod puts pin higher in the piston for lighter piston
Lighter aluminum rods
slightly increase bearings tolerances for better oiling
good oiling system a must
Stronger main caps if budget allows

So why I am asking is this. My 69 RR Vert came to me with a damaged 528 Hemi. The damage was caused by probably more than one thing. Someone installed an F1 Procharger on it. Poorly tuned, and the engine not built for it. had 3 pistons with broken ring lands and pushing oil badly. That is my best guess as to why the Hemi broke.

I pulled it for rebuild. Wanting to lower the compression to run the Procharger is becoming a problem. It will need custom made pistons, and a very well thought out build. Keep in mind, this was in a convertible.

I am having second thoughts about building it for a Procharger and putting it back in this car. 800+ HP in in a convertible? You tell me?

So, last year I picked up a 75 motor home 440. Something to put in the car while the Hemi is out for rebuild. The 440 is freshened up with a basic rebuild, bearings and seals, opened ring gaps to the max on the chart that came with the rings. 452 heads with a good valve job and nice springs. I dont know the springs, but the heads had been redone in the past with a very nice valve job. ARP main cap bolts.

I have been running this engine with the Procharger turned down to 5 to 10 PSI by putting a 5" pulley on it. I have the FBO ignition box limiter set at 5200. It is not enough. The engine revs right to the limiter before the automatic trans can shift gears. I want to turn up the limiter to around 6000 maybe a bit higher. I dont know if the engine take it.

I am really thinking to build the Hemi back to a normal 10.5 ish compression and put it in something else.

Thoughts, ideas, concerns?

 

[Al Alguire]

What needs to change to make a big engine spin to much higher rpms, like 6500 or so. Not looking for a build recipe, although that would be nice. What needs to change in theory? Big blocks are known for low end torque. What does it take to make it spin much higher?

What is a "big engine"? I have read many of the responses here and some good info for sure. But before I would answer anything I would want to know a LOT more about what you are building. If you want specifics. Anything can be made to spin higher, but budget and constraints of the platform would dictate specific answer.

 

[padam]

To sum up what I am reading here:

Valve train;
Lighter is better, titanium retainers and keepers if the budget allows
Lighter valves if budget allows
Stiffer valve springs a must
stronger shaft blocks

Rotating assembly;
Longer rod puts pin higher in the piston for lighter piston
Lighter aluminum rods
slightly increase bearings tolerances for better oiling
good oiling system a must
Stronger main caps if budget allows

So why I am asking is this. My 69 RR Vert came to me with a damaged 528 Hemi. The damage was caused by probably more than one thing. Someone installed an F1 Procharger on it. Poorly tuned, and the engine not built for it. had 3 pistons with broken ring lands and pushing oil badly. That is my best guess as to why the Hemi broke.

I pulled it for rebuild. Wanting to lower the compression to run the Procharger is becoming a problem. It will need custom made pistons, and a very well thought out build. Keep in mind, this was in a convertible.

I am having second thoughts about building it for a Procharger and putting it back in this car. 800+ HP in in a convertible? You tell me?

So, last year I picked up a 75 motor home 440. Something to put in the car while the Hemi is out for rebuild. The 440 is freshened up with a basic rebuild, bearings and seals, opened ring gaps to the max on the chart that came with the rings. 452 heads with a good valve job and nice springs. I dont know the springs, but the heads had been redone in the past with a very nice valve job. ARP main cap bolts.

I have been running this engine with the Procharger turned down to 5 to 10 PSI by putting a 5" pulley on it. I have the FBO ignition box limiter set at 5200. It is not enough. The engine revs right to the limiter before the automatic trans can shift gears. I want to turn up the limiter to around 6000 maybe a bit higher. I dont know if the engine take it.

I am really thinking to build the Hemi back to a normal 10.5 ish compression and put it in something else.

Thoughts, ideas, concerns?

I think you can dial the rev limiter up, just watch the oil pressure.