Tremec 5 speed conversion in a 1970 Charger

[417guy]

I got used to seeing classics in the slow lane until these transmissions started becoming popular. Now I can run 75-80 mph at RPMs similar to my 2007 Ram 1500.

I don’t want to hijack this thread, but want to chime in that the tremec makes driving a lot more fun! I have a keisler complete kit tko600,put it in 2009. Car had 727 with a 3000 stall 10” converter and 3.91 gears before. Still has 3.91 with the tremec. 70 mph is about 2200 rpm. Car was born column shift auto. It was correct down to NOT having a sure grip when built . I decided didn’t care what someone would pay me for the old car in 10 years, but what I wanted for the next 10 !!! Main complaint is can’t shift 2-3 at 6000 rpm. I won’t spend the $ to have it all gone thru with the latest parts, so I lift and go to 3rd. Still more fun that the 727, even though I could blip the throttle in gear at a stop light with that converter!!!

 

[Kern Dog]

That is not a hijack. I welcome all testimonials.

 

[ckessel]

That is not a hijact. I welcome all testimonials.

Are you going to start bagging on yourself for the spelling of "hijack" being wrong?

 

[Bighouse]

What’s the deal with not being able to shift at high rpms?

 

[Kern Dog]

What’s the deal with not being able to shift at high rpms?

Some of the high rpm upshift troubles were addressed with these transmissions but the problem isn’t gone entirely. Mine doesn’t bind or grind but it doesn’t pop right into second like an 833.
Regarding my spelling errors....
I blame old eyes and the tiny screen on this phone.
Ultimately, I should proofread before submitting.
Could this be why others have so many mistakes??
Ha ha.

 

[TTSaleen]

This thread delivers! If I can't get my NAG1 figured out soon, a manual swap is for-sure in my future!

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Some of the high rpm upshift troubles were addressed with these transmissions but the problem isn’t gone entirely. Mine doesn’t bind or grind but it doesn’t pop right into second like an 833.
Regarding my spelling errors....
I blame old eyes and the tiny screen on this phone.
Ultimately, I should proofread before submitting.
Could this be why others have so many mistakes??
Ha ha.

Well, me eyes aren't what they use to be, I get in a hurry & fail to proof read but also auto-correct/spell check decides to throw completely different words out all the damn time, so if you don't proof read who knows what's gonna appear...

 

[417guy]

That is not a hijack. I welcome all testimonials.

A testimonial… that’s what I meant !

 

[Nxcoupe]

Some of the high rpm upshift troubles were addressed with these transmissions but the problem isn’t gone entirely. Mine doesn’t bind or grind but it doesn’t pop right into second like an 833.
Regarding my spelling errors....
I blame old eyes and the tiny screen on this phone.
Ultimately, I should proofread before submitting.
Could this be why others have so many mistakes??
Ha ha.

Hmmm, I know guys shifting at 7k plus with these transmissions with no issues. A lot of it has to do with clutch air gap.

 

[watermelon]

hijact is passed tense


i missed that "not popping into second" part. all other shifts good?



watermelon

 

[Kern Dog]

There are occasions in life where I encounter some difficulties and don't know if it is my lack of skill or the machinery that is to blame.
Like many men, my ego sometimes gets in the way of common sense and I tend to blame the hammer for bending the nail.
It takes a concerted effort to be rational.
Since I first started messing with cars, I often jump into new tasks and fumble my way through.
I had no training on bodywork and paint work but after lots of practice and asking advice, I got better at it. Same goes with welding and other stuff.
I don't have a lot of experience driving manual transmission vehicles but I have owned a few over the years.
I recall FBBO member Dennis H mentioning the shifting problems that he had with his first Tremec 5 speed but the promotional information put out regarding the newer generation TKO 600 5 speeds state that upgrades have been made available to improve on the defects.
In the 90s, I had a Camaro that I swapped a Saginaw 4 speed into. That was a decent transmission and it shifted well. In 2009-2011, I had a Duster with a 360 and an 833. It shifted great too.
This Tremec doesn't shift bad but it does not easily slide into 2nd gear at higher rpms. The engine is gaining RPMs so fast though that I get excited and may not be timing my clutch release and shifter movement at exactly the right time. I have a 440 based 493 so I don't need to rev this dude to 7000 rpms. It probably peaks under 6000 given the mildly ported Edelbrock heads and moderate MP 528 solid cam.
Again, when I'm WOT in 1st gear and the RPMs are climbing fast, I feel like a virgin with my first woman.....I'm excited and probably making mistakes. When I consciously make the effort to remain calm and upshift with precision, it does just fine. As stated, it never binds or grinds, it just acts like there is a "stop" across the gate to 2nd gear.

 

[417guy]

There are occasions in life where I encounter some difficulties and don't know if it is my lack of skill or the machinery that is to blame.
Like many men, my ego sometimes gets in the way of common sense and I tend to blame the hammer for bending the nail.
It takes a concerted effort to be rational.
Since I first started messing with cars, I often jump into new tasks and fumble my way through.
I had no training on bodywork and paint work but after lots of practice and asking advice, I got better at it. Same goes with welding and other stuff.
I don't have a lot of experience driving manual transmission vehicles but I have owned a few over the years.
I recall FBBO member Dennis H mentioning the shifting problems that he had with his first Tremec 5 speed but the promotional information put out regarding the newer generation TKO 600 5 speeds state that upgrades have been made available to improve on the defects.
In the 90s, I had a Camaro that I swapped a Saginaw 4 speed into. That was a decent transmission and it shifted well. In 2009-2011, I had a Duster with a 360 and an 833. It shifted great too.
This Tremec doesn't shift bad but it does not easily slide into 2nd gear at higher rpms. The engine is gaining RPMs so fast though that I get excited and may not be timing my clutch release and shifter movement at exactly the right time. I have a 440 based 493 so I don't need to rev this dude to 7000 rpms. It probably peaks under 6000 given the mildly ported Edelbrock heads and moderate MP 528 solid cam.
Again, when I'm WOT in 1st gear and the RPMs are climbing fast, I feel like a virgin with my first woman.....I'm excited and probably making mistakes. When I consciously make the effort to remain calm and upshift with precision, it does just fine. As stated, it never binds or grinds, it just acts like there is a "stop" across the gate to 2nd gear.

That’s VERY well described ! I’ll date myself here, but the Grumpy Jenkins style of shifting is what all my buddies and I aspired to back in the 70’s. Shift that Muncie in the 70 Chevelle SS 396 and never take your right foot off the floor ! Sometimes the 2 to 3 shift was elusive…
I’m sure my tko600 from Keisler in 2008 was a basic unit. I ground some 3rd gear until I was at “Mopars at the Strip “ in 2010 I think and Keisler had a booth there. I was shown how to just push the shifter straight forward and it would slide into 3rd much better. After that, I heard of the carbon fiber bits and other upgrades that could be done to help 6000 rpm shifts, but I have never pursued that. My old car revs quick enough for me, and I enjoy it. Maybe I’ll get the new TKX in the future ?? Bottom line for me is I can shift 1-2 and 3-4 at 6000, the engine sounds good, and it is a rush for this old guy ! The kit I bought from Keisler was the best at that time. Things have changed since then, as all things do.

 

[Power75]

As you suggested to me in another thread, I read through this completely. Wow what a great job on detailing the conversion. I am going to go forward with mine in due time as it's not quite on the front burner yet, but thanks for pointing toward this thread. Pat

 

[Cranky]

That’s VERY well described ! I’ll date myself here, but the Grumpy Jenkins style of shifting is what all my buddies and I aspired to back in the 70’s. Shift that Muncie in the 70 Chevelle SS 396 and never take your right foot off the floor ! Sometimes the 2 to 3 shift was elusive…
I’m sure my tko600 from Keisler in 2008 was a basic unit. I ground some 3rd gear until I was at “Mopars at the Strip “ in 2010 I think and Keisler had a booth there. I was shown how to just push the shifter straight forward and it would slide into 3rd much better. After that, I heard of the carbon fiber bits and other upgrades that could be done to help 6000 rpm shifts, but I have never pursued that. My old car revs quick enough for me, and I enjoy it. Maybe I’ll get the new TKX in the future ?? Bottom line for me is I can shift 1-2 and 3-4 at 6000, the engine sounds good, and it is a rush for this old guy ! The kit I bought from Keisler was the best at that time. Things have changed since then, as all things do.

Vertigate shifters was the cats meow imo back in the day. If the 833 was right, they would sound like an automatic when rowing through the gears with one. Loved them but were somewhat a pain to drive on the street.....

 

[Kern Dog]

As you suggested to me in another thread, I read through this completely. Wow what a great job on detailing the conversion. I am going to go forward with mine in due time as it's not quite on the front burner yet, but thanks for pointing toward this thread. Pat

Thank you for the kind words.
I really enjoyed the journey on this one. I learned a lot and enjoyed finding solutions for the little obstacles I encountered. Several FBBO members were quite helpful and encouraging. This was an instance like starting a new job or losing weight.....You wonder why you didn't do it earlier. I LOVE how the car feels now.

 

[Nxcoupe]

Vertigate shifters was the cats meow imo back in the day. If the 833 was right, they would sound like an automatic when rowing through the gears with one. Loved them but were somewhat a pain to drive on the street.....

I had an orange 70 RR 383 with a vertigate in it and I dailied it for a year. Loved that shifter.

 

[nativefx]

Great write up Kern! I have been researching upgrading transmission options and I think I may do the TKX 5 speed from SST. The final overdrive is a little different from yours, as my quote says the TKX is .68 but 1st thru 4th seem to be the same. I believe you left your 3.55 gears in the car and were debating changing back to 3.91's? Did you ever get a chance to compare? Are the 3.55's to tall as is, or about the limit of being useful for the OD? What clutch setup came with your kit? Is it a single disk and do you like it as far as engagement and pedal feel? The quote I just received includes a Mcleod Street Extreme Clutch Kit:11" which is a single disk. When I ordered my Tremac 6 speed for my other project, I went with the Mcleod RST twin disk as most info i could find at the time said it would be one of the options to provide a great 'stock' pedal feel for driving on the street, while still holding power. Not sure if the single disk quoted was available at the time, and unfortunately I haven't even been able to drive the 6 speed car as it is a full on restoration (that's taken WAY to LOOOONNNNGGG to finish) that I'm hoping we can get into paint before year end! Appreciate any feedback. Just for reference, I'm having a 470 stroker built for the Charger and to mate up to the TKX.

 

[Dennis H]

Did I miss what are the rpm’s at 70 mph? Mine’s about 2150. 3:54 Dana ya know.

 

[Nxcoupe]

There are occasions in life where I encounter some difficulties and don't know if it is my lack of skill or the machinery that is to blame.
Like many men, my ego sometimes gets in the way of common sense and I tend to blame the hammer for bending the nail.
It takes a concerted effort to be rational.
Since I first started messing with cars, I often jump into new tasks and fumble my way through.
I had no training on bodywork and paint work but after lots of practice and asking advice, I got better at it. Same goes with welding and other stuff.
I don't have a lot of experience driving manual transmission vehicles but I have owned a few over the years.
I recall FBBO member Dennis H mentioning the shifting problems that he had with his first Tremec 5 speed but the promotional information put out regarding the newer generation TKO 600 5 speeds state that upgrades have been made available to improve on the defects.
In the 90s, I had a Camaro that I swapped a Saginaw 4 speed into. That was a decent transmission and it shifted well. In 2009-2011, I had a Duster with a 360 and an 833. It shifted great too.
This Tremec doesn't shift bad but it does not easily slide into 2nd gear at higher rpms. The engine is gaining RPMs so fast though that I get excited and may not be timing my clutch release and shifter movement at exactly the right time. I have a 440 based 493 so I don't need to rev this dude to 7000 rpms. It probably peaks under 6000 given the mildly ported Edelbrock heads and moderate MP 528 solid cam.
Again, when I'm WOT in 1st gear and the RPMs are climbing fast, I feel like a virgin with my first woman.....I'm excited and probably making mistakes. When I consciously make the effort to remain calm and upshift with precision, it does just fine. As stated, it never binds or grinds, it just acts like there is a "stop" across the gate to 2nd gear.

The TKO 500 and 600 transmissions would NOT go into gear above 5500 without modifications, however, the TKx trans has T56 style gears and carbon fiber blocker rings which allow very high rpm shifting. I just picked one up and will be trying it behind a nitrous big inch sbf. Anyone that needs measurements or pics I can do that.

 

[Kern Dog]

Did I miss what are the rpm’s at 70 mph? Mine’s about 2150. 3:54 Dana ya know.

I have 3.55 gears, 28" tall tires and run around 2000 rpms at 70 mph.
Today I went on a cruise with the Sacramento Mopar club, racking up almost 200 miles. Speeds reached almost 100 mph a few times. I did several burnouts and even some low speed cruising. I still have almost a 1/4 tank. I used to average around 190 miles a tank. The gearing really helped gas mileage! Cruising at 80 mph on the way home is about as easy as in a newer car. I still have more road noise than I'd like but with my ears, I can't tell where it is coming from. I have sound deadening matting on the floors and firewall but nothing on the roof skin. The steering response seems numb compared to before. I'm going to look for any slop in the system. The allen screw and jam nut are adjusted as far as they can go in this steering box. The Firm Feel steering box was an improvement over the stock unit but maybe it is finished. If I can't find any obvious problems, maybe a wheel alignment could reveal something. I haven't had it aligned since 2014. I haven't hit any curbs or jumped the car so I doubt it is that far off but toe settings can change.
Currently it has the ever so common non responsive feel at center and slightly off center but even when it does start to respond, it lacks the sharp feel it had before. That can be several things though.