Tremec 5 speed conversion in a 1970 Charger
- Thread starter Kern Dog
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They did, Dennis H had an early Kiesler that had a few problems.
Mine is fine there.
Mine is fine there.
Downshifting from 5th to 4th in the Dart isn't smooth either. I almost double clutch it into neutral first. And mine's the ancient Kiesler Engineering model.
watermelon
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ive been following the sst directions on this video - shifting has been dreamy.
i think i float in neutral from in between the 5-to-4 because im usually on the freeway and just pasuing to see what traffic is going to do - have not buzzed reverse there
how many miles you got on your trans now?
watermelon
i think i float in neutral from in between the 5-to-4 because im usually on the freeway and just pasuing to see what traffic is going to do - have not buzzed reverse there
how many miles you got on your trans now?
watermelon
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I'm probably between 600 and 650.
Maybe I am still so amped up and excited, I just make mistakes. When I shift slowly and deliberately, it is fine.
Just finished reading this entire thread. What a great read!
I have been repairing/rebuilding TKO and T5 trans since the 90s. I can tell you what you are experiencing on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts is normal to some extent, but I have something you should check. Remove the bottom bellhousing shield and make sure you have the clutch pp positioned so you can see the disk compressed between pp and flywheel. Get a .035" feeler gauge and have some one depress the clutch pedal and hold it while you attempt to insert the gauge. If the gauge won't easily slide in between the disk and flywheel or disk and pp, then you need more clutch travel or adjustment, as it were.
Also, for an fyi of anyone interested, there are companies making carbon fiber lined blocker rings which raises the rpm that the trans can be shifted and slip into gear. The std TKO has always used brass blocker rings which don't work as efficiently as the carbon fiber units.
TKx. The TKx is a completely redesigned unit that utilizes a T56 style 3 piece blocker rings(synchronizers) that slow the gears down quickly at each gear change. This, combined with smaller, lighter gears allows very high rpm shifts, similar to the T56.
The combination of huge, heavy gears and brass blocker rings make the TKO less than perfect for higher rpm shifts.
Hope this helps and adds to your well written how-to.
I have been repairing/rebuilding TKO and T5 trans since the 90s. I can tell you what you are experiencing on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts is normal to some extent, but I have something you should check. Remove the bottom bellhousing shield and make sure you have the clutch pp positioned so you can see the disk compressed between pp and flywheel. Get a .035" feeler gauge and have some one depress the clutch pedal and hold it while you attempt to insert the gauge. If the gauge won't easily slide in between the disk and flywheel or disk and pp, then you need more clutch travel or adjustment, as it were.
Also, for an fyi of anyone interested, there are companies making carbon fiber lined blocker rings which raises the rpm that the trans can be shifted and slip into gear. The std TKO has always used brass blocker rings which don't work as efficiently as the carbon fiber units.
TKx. The TKx is a completely redesigned unit that utilizes a T56 style 3 piece blocker rings(synchronizers) that slow the gears down quickly at each gear change. This, combined with smaller, lighter gears allows very high rpm shifts, similar to the T56.
The combination of huge, heavy gears and brass blocker rings make the TKO less than perfect for higher rpm shifts.
Hope this helps and adds to your well written how-to.
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Thank you.
The issue of clutch release and travel could be a contributing factor. I tried to limit the upward travel of the clutch pedal because I didn't like the uneven heights of the clutch and brake pedals. It shifts fine at low speeds, when cruising and even at higher rpms as long as I don't try to force it. Maybe if there was more clutch pedal travel I'd have better results. I could install an adjustable brake pushrod to raise the brake pedal up a bit. I have options.
Thank you for the nice words.
The issue of clutch release and travel could be a contributing factor. I tried to limit the upward travel of the clutch pedal because I didn't like the uneven heights of the clutch and brake pedals. It shifts fine at low speeds, when cruising and even at higher rpms as long as I don't try to force it. Maybe if there was more clutch pedal travel I'd have better results. I could install an adjustable brake pushrod to raise the brake pedal up a bit. I have options.
Thank you for the nice words.
You may not need to. If you have .035" airgap, then it's not necessary to adjust it further. However, if you don't have that minimum airgap, you could burn up your brass blocker rings very quickly because even tho the pedal is pushed in, the clutch is still transferring some power through the input shaft which puts more strain on the blockers to try and synchronize the gear change. They are like a set of brake shoes for each gear. Not having the correct airgap is like trying to stop the car while you still have your foot on the gas at part throttle. Hope that clarifies it further. A lot of investment to lose just because of an adjustment.
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If I get some time NEXT weekend, I'll check it out. THank you.
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This still continues to be a bunch of fun.
I'm getting better at shifting without mistakes. I don't dump the clutch from a dead stop but I do let it engage then hammer it pretty good. The "Summer Compound" 100 TW tires are not drag race tires by any stretch. They don't smoke much but they do spin pretty good. I had it up almost 100 on Saturday on the way to a car show. Rowing the gears is so much more fun than putting it in drive and letting the transmission shift for itself.
I wonder how much abuse the 8 3/4" axle will take before it starts to make trouble. I don't want the weight of the Dana 60. I may consider a 9 1/4" axle if I can find a set of 3.55 or 3.73 gears for one. I'd obviously need a car axle to have a pinion snubber. This means looking for a C body. I have a 3.55 9 1/4" axle in my 2007 Ram truck but I don't know what years the gears interchange.
I'm getting better at shifting without mistakes. I don't dump the clutch from a dead stop but I do let it engage then hammer it pretty good. The "Summer Compound" 100 TW tires are not drag race tires by any stretch. They don't smoke much but they do spin pretty good. I had it up almost 100 on Saturday on the way to a car show. Rowing the gears is so much more fun than putting it in drive and letting the transmission shift for itself.
I wonder how much abuse the 8 3/4" axle will take before it starts to make trouble. I don't want the weight of the Dana 60. I may consider a 9 1/4" axle if I can find a set of 3.55 or 3.73 gears for one. I'd obviously need a car axle to have a pinion snubber. This means looking for a C body. I have a 3.55 9 1/4" axle in my 2007 Ram truck but I don't know what years the gears interchange.
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6872n73
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Mr Dog,
I know you followed directions on the install but I keep looking at the hole in the trans tunnel sand wondering if the front half of the cutout could have been massaged to fit the the trans like
I'm sure if you're making a patch a slightly larger patch isn't that big of a deal but I'm just thinking in an effort to save as much original sheet metal as possible, could this have been done?
I know you followed directions on the install but I keep looking at the hole in the trans tunnel sand wondering if the front half of the cutout could have been massaged to fit the the trans like
I'm sure if you're making a patch a slightly larger patch isn't that big of a deal but I'm just thinking in an effort to save as much original sheet metal as possible, could this have been done?
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No. The body of the Tremec sits up higher.
Their template was probably made to make it easier for the majority of installers. The hole I cut was not structural, per se. Since the tunnel patch was perimeter welded, there is no loss of strength even if the hole did weaken anything. The patch sits about 1 1/2" taller than the original floor which had adequate clearance for a stock 727 or 4 speed.
It is a tight fit with this Tremec though. The torsion bar crossmember was untouched but the tail shaft extension housing barely clears. They did their die diligence in terms of making this all fit without having to make structural changes.
Their template was probably made to make it easier for the majority of installers. The hole I cut was not structural, per se. Since the tunnel patch was perimeter welded, there is no loss of strength even if the hole did weaken anything. The patch sits about 1 1/2" taller than the original floor which had adequate clearance for a stock 727 or 4 speed.
It is a tight fit with this Tremec though. The torsion bar crossmember was untouched but the tail shaft extension housing barely clears. They did their die diligence in terms of making this all fit without having to make structural changes.
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Nothing new to report except to say that I LOVE this setup.
I have driven the car more this year than the last 5 years combined. I mentioned before that I added a Classic Auto Air system in 2019. Prior to that, I had no functioning heater or A/C. Having a heater is more important than I thought. This car is flat out comfortable even with the Winter coming on. Cruising around lately with the heater and the 5 speed has been great. I've always driven the car Spring, Summer and Fall but I can now add Winter to that list.
This transmission swap was not cheap but holeeeee crap it is worth it. I am getting better at RPM and speed matching my upshifts and downshifts. I almost yearn for different mufflers to be able to hear more exhaust noise on the down rev between shifts.
I have not installed the clutch-ignition switch. I always start it in neutral anyway.
January 5th will make one year ago that I began the swap.
I have driven the car more this year than the last 5 years combined. I mentioned before that I added a Classic Auto Air system in 2019. Prior to that, I had no functioning heater or A/C. Having a heater is more important than I thought. This car is flat out comfortable even with the Winter coming on. Cruising around lately with the heater and the 5 speed has been great. I've always driven the car Spring, Summer and Fall but I can now add Winter to that list.
This transmission swap was not cheap but holeeeee crap it is worth it. I am getting better at RPM and speed matching my upshifts and downshifts. I almost yearn for different mufflers to be able to hear more exhaust noise on the down rev between shifts.
I have not installed the clutch-ignition switch. I always start it in neutral anyway.
January 5th will make one year ago that I began the swap.
That's right Greg keep her on the road as much as you can. Enjoy it while you have it. No use doing all that work for the next guy! You did a great job documenting your endeavors.
Thanks!
Thanks!
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I know that there are purists that would never consider this for their cars. That is fine if that is their decision.
Overdrive transmissions changed things for new cars when they were first introduced. The capability of low speed acceleration coupled with high speed economy is great. It doesn’t matter if your car is 2 years old or 50, lower cruising rpms really make a difference.
As much as I love the engine sounds of a dual exhaust without catalytic converters, lower rpms on the freeway make the cars so much more comfortable.
Overdrive transmissions changed things for new cars when they were first introduced. The capability of low speed acceleration coupled with high speed economy is great. It doesn’t matter if your car is 2 years old or 50, lower cruising rpms really make a difference.
As much as I love the engine sounds of a dual exhaust without catalytic converters, lower rpms on the freeway make the cars so much more comfortable.
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People like us contend that since our cars aren’t special models, we aren’t ruining anything.
There is a reasonable Case made for and against that statement.
All of these cars are pretty rare nowadays. How often do you see even a 30 year old car in the road?
I live in a region that gets no snow and I don’t see many classics on the road. You do get the occasional mid 70s trucks that are true workhorses... the last of the factory big block 4wds like my beater “Power Wagon”.
I always try to wave to people that are driving an old car, even the people in Fords waiting on a tow truck.
There is a reasonable Case made for and against that statement.
All of these cars are pretty rare nowadays. How often do you see even a 30 year old car in the road?
I live in a region that gets no snow and I don’t see many classics on the road. You do get the occasional mid 70s trucks that are true workhorses... the last of the factory big block 4wds like my beater “Power Wagon”.
I always try to wave to people that are driving an old car, even the people in Fords waiting on a tow truck.
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watermelon
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im passing Prius' with my SST TKO 500 & 440cu 66 Coronet combo
watermelon
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I got used to seeing classics in the slow lane until these transmissions started becoming popular. Now I can run 75-80 mph at RPMs similar to my 2007 Ram 1500.
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