CoronetDarter
Well-Known Member
Subscribed. I always enjoy following your threads.
Tremec 5 speed conversion in a 1970 Charger
- Thread starter Kern Dog
- Start date
im subscribing too. clock has been ticking on this project since Kern posted the “teaser” pic.
enjoy the journey Kern!
watermelon
enjoy the journey Kern!
watermelon
- Local time
- 1:05 PM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 41,689
- Reaction score
- 158,065
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
I had the car out today for what may be the last drive with the automatic. I racked about 50 miles just cruising around. I wanted to find a stretch where I could get to a sustained speed to record the rpms at those speeds.
I have a 3.55 gear, 28" tire, 11" converter that obviously does not lock up.
2800 rpms at 60.
3000 rpms at 65.
3200 rpms at 70.
I wanted to compare road speed and rpms with the automatic to the 5 speed. It may be difficult to gauge though if I swap the 3.91 gear in at the same time I do the Tremec. It might make sense to do the swap with these 3.55s in place just to get the info for a direct comparison. I can change the diff later. The speedometer uses an electronic signal that is easy to calibrate with no parts to change.
For a little while, I had considered a couple passes on a dyno to see the net HP with each. It makes no difference to me, it was just an idea to satisfy a curiosity. I've read that most automatics draw about 20-22% and most manuals draw 15-18%.
The dial indicator arrived yesterday along with the .007 dowel pins. Those are the smallest offset available. If my runout is further out than that, I'll have to get different dowels.
A buddy of mine that did a Tremec swap into a '71 Challenger said that his runout was within spec with no correction needed. Of the 4 or 5 people that I have spoken with or read from, he is the only one that had such luck.
I have a 3.55 gear, 28" tire, 11" converter that obviously does not lock up.
2800 rpms at 60.
3000 rpms at 65.
3200 rpms at 70.
I wanted to compare road speed and rpms with the automatic to the 5 speed. It may be difficult to gauge though if I swap the 3.91 gear in at the same time I do the Tremec. It might make sense to do the swap with these 3.55s in place just to get the info for a direct comparison. I can change the diff later. The speedometer uses an electronic signal that is easy to calibrate with no parts to change.
For a little while, I had considered a couple passes on a dyno to see the net HP with each. It makes no difference to me, it was just an idea to satisfy a curiosity. I've read that most automatics draw about 20-22% and most manuals draw 15-18%.
The dial indicator arrived yesterday along with the .007 dowel pins. Those are the smallest offset available. If my runout is further out than that, I'll have to get different dowels.
A buddy of mine that did a Tremec swap into a '71 Challenger said that his runout was within spec with no correction needed. Of the 4 or 5 people that I have spoken with or read from, he is the only one that had such luck.
- Local time
- 4:05 PM
- Joined
- May 14, 2011
- Messages
- 18,825
- Reaction score
- 37,723
- Location
- On the Ridge, TN
28" tire here as well with 3.55's on Fred and I get approximately the same speed/rpm's as you indicate
with the A833 if that means anything.
- Local time
- 1:05 PM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 41,689
- Reaction score
- 158,065
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
Yeah? Maybe the slippage in the converter is less than I thought.
- Local time
- 4:05 PM
- Joined
- May 14, 2011
- Messages
- 18,825
- Reaction score
- 37,723
- Location
- On the Ridge, TN
My readings are taken from my Sun Super Tach II, which is new but like 30+ years old.
My speedo is dead on, verified by GPS.
Your mileage may vary, void where prohibited. FDIC.
My speedo is dead on, verified by GPS.
Your mileage may vary, void where prohibited. FDIC.
furious70
Well-Known Member
I have tko, 4.10 dana, 28" tire, 484 cam, you're right in your thoughts about lugging the engine. Personally I'd not go lower than 4.10, definitely not the 3.55. you'll never use od cept on the interstate.
I let the engine sing to me in 4th up to 60mph and then use 5th to avoid lugging. 55mph is right near 3000rpm. I always use 4th around town in the 45mph speed limits
I let the engine sing to me in 4th up to 60mph and then use 5th to avoid lugging. 55mph is right near 3000rpm. I always use 4th around town in the 45mph speed limits
- Local time
- 1:05 PM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 41,689
- Reaction score
- 158,065
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
The wrenching has begun!
First up was to actually look at the directions.
Actually, I did look them over. I wondered if there was some little detail that they may have included that I didn't think of.
There was a group of instructions for converting a factory manual transmission to the 5 speed but only one page for automatic cars. I started by removing the seats.
This carpet was new in the early 2000s when the companies were notorious for sending out short segments.
Look at how short it is going up the firewall.
You can see the streaks from the leaky heater core. I changed all that stuff out in 2019 when I converted to the Classic Auto Air setup.
Here is evidence of how short the carpet is at the right side.
First up was to actually look at the directions.
Actually, I did look them over. I wondered if there was some little detail that they may have included that I didn't think of.
There was a group of instructions for converting a factory manual transmission to the 5 speed but only one page for automatic cars. I started by removing the seats.
This carpet was new in the early 2000s when the companies were notorious for sending out short segments.
Look at how short it is going up the firewall.
You can see the streaks from the leaky heater core. I changed all that stuff out in 2019 when I converted to the Classic Auto Air setup.
Here is evidence of how short the carpet is at the right side.
- Local time
- 1:05 PM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 41,689
- Reaction score
- 158,065
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
Next up, removing the console.
You can see the wiring and switch for the electric truck lock release.
The rocker switch was for the vacuum pump that I had in the car when I had the B I G Lunati cam....I needed the extra ooomph since it had too low idle vacuum for the power brakes.
The console has three points where it is secured to the floor. The furthest forward was not connected to anything here. I must have lost a bracket some time long ago. I'll have to make something for it.
You'll notice the console was molded in GREEN!
You can see the wiring and switch for the electric truck lock release.
The rocker switch was for the vacuum pump that I had in the car when I had the B I G Lunati cam....I needed the extra ooomph since it had too low idle vacuum for the power brakes.
The console has three points where it is secured to the floor. The furthest forward was not connected to anything here. I must have lost a bracket some time long ago. I'll have to make something for it.
You'll notice the console was molded in GREEN!
- Local time
- 1:05 PM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 41,689
- Reaction score
- 158,065
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
Looking at where the manual shifter comes up through THIS plate.....
Compared to this one....
There is a sort of "valley" where two points meet on the near side of the opening. I planned to cut and modify the A/T plate to work for the manual trans. I do wonder though how much of the console support on the tunnel needs to be removed.
I can bend and form metal to make supports but I would prefer to preserve the original position of the factory brackets if I can. The instructions did not cover this part. Obviously the automatic shifter brackets will come off and since they will be reused on Jigsaw, I need to be careful to not thrash them. I decided to just remove the shifter for now and leave the linkage there.
I will need to roll the car forward to get it into position for the lift so I left the linkage in place.
This next task was time consuming but it went well.
Compared to this one....
There is a sort of "valley" where two points meet on the near side of the opening. I planned to cut and modify the A/T plate to work for the manual trans. I do wonder though how much of the console support on the tunnel needs to be removed.
I can bend and form metal to make supports but I would prefer to preserve the original position of the factory brackets if I can. The instructions did not cover this part. Obviously the automatic shifter brackets will come off and since they will be reused on Jigsaw, I need to be careful to not thrash them. I decided to just remove the shifter for now and leave the linkage there.
I will need to roll the car forward to get it into position for the lift so I left the linkage in place.
This next task was time consuming but it went well.
- Local time
- 1:05 PM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 41,689
- Reaction score
- 158,065
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
Sometime in 2013 or so, I made some wiring changes. I moved the battery to the trunk and ran new wires and battery cables through the inside. In 2015 I changed the instrument cluster. This setup is a Dakota Digital. They use a master "brain box" that receives all inputs then feeds the info to the instrument cluster. The speedometer uses a speed sensor, not a cable. The water temp and oil pressure sending units are different from stock.
Seeing as how back then I had ZERO intention of converting this car to a manual transmission, I used the hole in the firewall (Block off plug for the clutch linkage) to pass the many wires through. Now I had to make room for the clutch pushrod.
I looked at the firewall to find another way to run the wires. I had the water temp, oil pressure, Ign 1 and Ign 2 wires, a tachometer wire and the one that goes to the rear view mirror. The mirror has a compass and thermometer and is auto-dimming.
The black 1/0 cable running horizontally, then going through the firewall below the oval plug is the main battery cable. It is electrically DEAD except when cranking the engine.
Above the oval plug and to the left is the original speedometer grommet, now on the power wire for the electronic speed sensor.
Note how many wires go through the oval body plug. I was curious about how I would reroute them. Would they then be too short and need soldering to extend them?
Also, which end of the wires should I disconnect? The water temp and oil pressure wires were wrapped into the harness, the temp sending unit is under the A/C compressor too.(Tough to reach) I decided to remove the instrument panel and pull the wires from the cluster. It was almost a 50/50 deal as to which way would take the most time but I'm glad that I went this way about it.
I found a hole in the firewall below the bulkhead plug. It formerly served as a mounting hole for the old heater-A/C box. Directly to the left of the hole is the starter relay, you can see the screws poking through. This was the new pass-through that I decided to use. The IGN 1&2 wires need to attach to the relay anyway and this will make the underhood wiring look cleaner.
I looked through the body plugs I had and picked a 1" plastic one
IGN 1&2 wires need to attach to the relay anyway and this will make the underhood wiring look cleaner.
I looked through the body plugs I had and picked a 1" plastic one....
I took the die grinder to the hole...
I hogged it out enough to fit the plug..
Then ran the wires through a hole in the plug.
Oddly, all of the wires were actually LONGER now since this was a simpler routing than the other way. Underhood looks cleaner.
You can see some light shining through the opening in the round plug.
I'll dab a bit of sealant on the cluster of wires to seal it up nice. This was a task that I didn't think would be this easy. Lucky ME !
Seeing as how back then I had ZERO intention of converting this car to a manual transmission, I used the hole in the firewall (Block off plug for the clutch linkage) to pass the many wires through. Now I had to make room for the clutch pushrod.
I looked at the firewall to find another way to run the wires. I had the water temp, oil pressure, Ign 1 and Ign 2 wires, a tachometer wire and the one that goes to the rear view mirror. The mirror has a compass and thermometer and is auto-dimming.
The black 1/0 cable running horizontally, then going through the firewall below the oval plug is the main battery cable. It is electrically DEAD except when cranking the engine.
Above the oval plug and to the left is the original speedometer grommet, now on the power wire for the electronic speed sensor.
Note how many wires go through the oval body plug. I was curious about how I would reroute them. Would they then be too short and need soldering to extend them?
Also, which end of the wires should I disconnect? The water temp and oil pressure wires were wrapped into the harness, the temp sending unit is under the A/C compressor too.(Tough to reach) I decided to remove the instrument panel and pull the wires from the cluster. It was almost a 50/50 deal as to which way would take the most time but I'm glad that I went this way about it.
I found a hole in the firewall below the bulkhead plug. It formerly served as a mounting hole for the old heater-A/C box. Directly to the left of the hole is the starter relay, you can see the screws poking through. This was the new pass-through that I decided to use. The IGN 1&2 wires need to attach to the relay anyway and this will make the underhood wiring look cleaner.
I looked through the body plugs I had and picked a 1" plastic one
IGN 1&2 wires need to attach to the relay anyway and this will make the underhood wiring look cleaner.
I looked through the body plugs I had and picked a 1" plastic one....
I took the die grinder to the hole...
I hogged it out enough to fit the plug..
Then ran the wires through a hole in the plug.
Oddly, all of the wires were actually LONGER now since this was a simpler routing than the other way. Underhood looks cleaner.
You can see some light shining through the opening in the round plug.
I'll dab a bit of sealant on the cluster of wires to seal it up nice. This was a task that I didn't think would be this easy. Lucky ME !
Last edited:
- Local time
- 1:05 PM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 41,689
- Reaction score
- 158,065
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
I sometimes approach a project and ponder where exactly to start.
The instructions included here do not clearly state where to start or in what order to do it. They outline the bell housing runout measuring procedure and the setup of the hydraulic clutch stuff. Nothing in the packet about removal of the console brackets, automatic shifter brackets, measuring for driveline angles or even the removal of the old transmission and components. Maybe my packet is missing a section?
I will fumble my way through. Next up is the clutch and brake pedals. I may do the hydraulic master cylinder and lines as well.
The instructions included here do not clearly state where to start or in what order to do it. They outline the bell housing runout measuring procedure and the setup of the hydraulic clutch stuff. Nothing in the packet about removal of the console brackets, automatic shifter brackets, measuring for driveline angles or even the removal of the old transmission and components. Maybe my packet is missing a section?
I will fumble my way through. Next up is the clutch and brake pedals. I may do the hydraulic master cylinder and lines as well.
my two cents is to get the 727 out and focus on the bellhousing alignment first (if needed) then move onto mounting up the tko. this should naturally lead you into the tunnel hump mods. the rest of things are just small little details.
watermelon
watermelon
- Local time
- 1:05 PM
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2012
- Messages
- 41,689
- Reaction score
- 158,065
- Location
- Granite Bay CA
I would think that logically, I'd be best off removing the automatic trans equipment, check the bell housing runout, install the clutch then do the tunnel modifications.
These instructions show the tunnel mods and bell & trans mockup first but that seems strange. I will be using a transmission jack so that helps.
Of course, I am open to suggestions since this is the first time for me on this.
These instructions show the tunnel mods and bell & trans mockup first but that seems strange. I will be using a transmission jack so that helps.
Of course, I am open to suggestions since this is the first time for me on this.
Last edited:
- Local time
- 4:05 PM
- Joined
- May 14, 2011
- Messages
- 18,825
- Reaction score
- 37,723
- Location
- On the Ridge, TN
Your logic is sound, my friend.
First, you deal with what is to be removed - then next is to modify that which is to remain as necessary.
The old adage "take care of what you got before you go get more to take care of" rings true a lot
in life.
Sure is fun watching someone else do it.
First, you deal with what is to be removed - then next is to modify that which is to remain as necessary.
The old adage "take care of what you got before you go get more to take care of" rings true a lot
in life.
Sure is fun watching someone else do it.
I'd tackle everything that could result in ordering more parts first, shims for the hyd clutch, alignment pins, pilot bearing, etc. If you end up needing to order something you just tackle other jobs while you wait on parts... Just a thought.
Last edited:
Jesse6869
Well-Known Member
I was about to say I busted up pilot bearing, busted is a strong word so I’ll say put a small indentation on it I didn’t like it so I replaced it (pilot bearing). But it took awhile to get replacement but with that I did order couple to have just in case I had another issue from SST to have for a Back up. My motor was out on a cherry picker and I mounted transmission on while on a cherry picker not a good idea. Well we all learn from our mistakes.
- Local time
- 4:05 PM
- Joined
- May 14, 2011
- Messages
- 18,825
- Reaction score
- 37,723
- Location
- On the Ridge, TN
Greg, their website has all sorts of instructions/documentation on swaps:
https://shiftsst.com/installation-manuals
https://shiftsst.com/installation-manuals
Jesse6869
Well-Known Member
Yes and I called a few times and every time they picked up the phone and were vary helpful. Great customer service.
Similar threads
