What is the general opinion of doing a 440 block .060 over?

[super-bee_ski]

Good article and thank you R413!

 

[j-c-c-62]

Rear this article, very good and dispels the myths

440 Source.com Everything you've ever wanted to know about blocks and more....

Only item I have to question in the above in-depth informative article, even though they mention the testing of between 20 and 50 blocks being an adequate size test sample, it was mainly done on I suspect mostly rebuildable "survivor" blocks 50? years old, meaning the discarded/failed blocks over the years are not part of the test sample.

 

[R413]

The article was specifically on BB mopar factory blocks, which is great for us. All they can test is why is around when they did the article. And that's all we have to pull from today is the block that are left out there.

Many folks have been playing with these cars since new. How many blocks failed on there own because they were a bad casting? Sure there were some, hard to make them all perfect.

Cannot count the blocks failed from freeze cracking, overheating, over machining, 800+ horsepower cracking the main webs, rods going through the side, and any other user caused problems?

 

[j-c-c-62]

Many folks have been playing with these cars since new. How many blocks failed on there own because they were a bad casting? Sure there were some, hard to make them all perfect.

Or well designed, and the goal of testing, undermined here again, by only testing a sample of surviving blocks.
Again, I am not opposed to testing one bit, but I feel strongly assumptions/conclusions in this matter should be taken with at the least a grain of salt.

 

[super-bee_ski]

Or well designed, and the goal of testing, undermined here again, by only testing a sample of surviving blocks.
Again, I am not opposed to testing one bit, but I feel strongly assumptions/conclusions in this matter should be taken with at the least a grain of salt.

Well, good point j-c-c-62...but I am not anything you are saying..it's too deep for me, I appreciate your input. I will rely on the Machine Shop :
1. Have machine shop, in this case Pettis Engineering Hesperia CA check block.
2. Magna flux same block
3. Sonic test same block.
All good...
Using cast pistons, sealed power and standard, not racing equipment...
Again:
IF I wanted huge performance I would install either of these two:

 

[R413]

Or well designed, and the goal of testing, undermined here again, by only testing a sample of surviving blocks.
Again, I am not opposed to testing one bit, but I feel strongly assumptions/conclusions in this matter should be taken with at the least a grain of salt.

I politely disagree with the grain of salt. Please elaborate.

What did they omit in their testing?
What could they do better?
They cannot test every 440 block in existence. There is not a big problem with these 440 blocks failing. Or giving up in a mild street car application.

They acquired used blocks and tested them. That's all they can do. That's what we do when we build a street engine. Get a used one and go with it.

 

[RemCharger]

I'll throw out there that if someone is reading this in the future.. go .055 over first. Then you're using the common 4.375 ring package, and leaving yourself room to go 60 in the future..

 

[j-c-c-62]

I politely disagree with the grain of salt. Please elaborate.................

That's all they can do.

That is the point. They only mostly test "good" blocks, the ones that are not able to be tested for whatever reason I suspect tell a story, and we don't know what that story exactly is and our assumptions therefore need a grain of salt.

 

[PROSTOCKTOM]

Here's the bottom line. We each do things differently. Testing, or not testing the absolute newest block made is now 45 years old and they have all had varied care in the last 45-60 years.

When a very minor rebuild now cost thousands of dollar to way over $10,000, why would you not want to take the time and a few hundred dollars to make sure about the foundation

you're building an engine on? Unless you like the odds and don't mind spending the time or money to do it over.

If you don't have the time or money to do it right the first time where are you going to get the time or money to do it the second time?

You all have a Good Day,

Tom

 

[j-c-c-62]

Well, good point j-c-c-62...but I am not anything you are saying..it's too deep for me, I appreciate your input. I will rely on the Machine Shop :
1. Have machine shop, in this case Pettis Engineering Hesperia CA check block.
2. Magna flux same block
3. Sonic test same block.
All good...
Using cast pistons, sealed power and standard, not racing equipment...
Again:
IF I wanted huge performance I would install either of these two:

View attachment 1875843

View attachment 1875844

You are doing everything you can do, and more than most would. I would likely do the same. You will be fine, IMO.
Sorry about not installing the other two.

I'll head to the sidelines on this thread, as I am starting to only repeat myself.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

I have a 60 over 440 out in my shed and it was in my buddies daily driver GTX. He drove the car literally everywhere and never had over heating issues. The only thing that happened to the engine was it developed a tick. Other than the tick the engine ran well. I'm going to put a new cam in it one day and build myself a nice 440 and stuff it in something.

 

[R413]

That is the point. They only mostly test "good" blocks, the ones that are not able to be tested for whatever reason I suspect tell a story, and we don't know what that story exactly is and our assumptions therefore need a grain of salt.

I still call BS on this thinking. You are glass half empty.

We as mopar folks are lucky they did this test. They proved there are no thin wall castings, they show the thick web 400's, they tested the iron in different year blocks.

I don't mind repeating that BB Chrysler blocks are not trouble prone, they are good quality even after 60 years of use and abuse.

 

[j-c-c-62]

I still call BS on this thinking. You are glass half empty.

We as mopar folks are lucky they did this test. They proved there are no thin wall castings, they show the thick web 400's, they tested the iron in different year blocks.

I don't mind repeating that BB Chrysler blocks are not trouble prone, they are good quality even after 60 years of use and abuse.

Maybe, but my glass appears here to be a bit larger than yours, as I am asking questions and you are making unsupported and non sequitur claims.

 

[Kern Dog]

JCC ought to be a lawyer. He loves to play counterpoint on just about every issue.
A moderator ought to put "Devil's Advocate" under his name here.

 

[451Mopar]

I would have said 0.055" over for 4.375" bore because there is a good selection of pistons and rings in that size, but you said it was already 0.060" over.

 

[WileE]

JCC ought to be a lawyer. He loves to play counterpoint on just about every issue.
A moderator ought to put "Devil's Advocate" under his name here.

 

[ckessel]

Just wait till he tangles with "the engineer". It will be epic. I wonder if it will be as entertaining as the old SNL version of Point, Counter Point with Dan Akroyd with Jane Curtain. Jane, you ignorant ..ut!

 

[PROSTOCKTOM]

I would have said 0.055" over for 4.375" bore because there is a good selection of pistons and rings in that size, but you said it was already 0.060" over.

ICON offers several options in .060" over, so they are still readily available, or at least for now.

Tom

 

[toolmanmike]

Any thought on practicality/feasibility of doing a 440 .060 over bore? Is it a viable option? I have a 440 block already machined to .060 over bore and was wondering if the block can hold up under normal driving conditions, not "Racing". Essentially a "good street motor". Using cast Sealed Power pistons.

Only if needed and have it sonic checked to make sure it's thick enough to be safely bored .060.

 

[super-bee_ski]

I'll throw out there that if someone is reading this in the future.. go .055 over first. Then you're using the common 4.375 ring package, and leaving yourself room to go 60 in the future..

Like this...but I have in my possession:
1. A original 1970 440 automatic engine complete.
2. A Machined 440 block bored 0.60
The plan is to put ta 440 in my 383 Superbee as I removed the 1970 "426" Hemi and putting it up for sale or make a coffee table out of it...
I have my original 383 that I rebuilt with Cuda Bob (R.I.P) back in 2009. But it has been sitting and I'm preserving it. The 440 will be a Mild build for AC (Car is a 70 Superbee auto trans and AC)