Valvetrain clatter/noise

[PRHeads]

I don’t think you’re grasping the intent of those old lifters with the cup type retainer.
They are to be run with essentially “0” preload from the pushrod.
The plunger is preloaded by the retainer.
The purpose of that is if you float the valves, you can’t “pump the lifters up” and hang the valves open.
The plungers are already topped out.

Preloading them more doesn’t hurt anything, it just defeats the intent of the design.

You basically can’t check for coil bind/seal clearance with a hyd lifter, since it’s not fully pumped up when the engine isn’t running.

 

[1STMP]

I don’t think you’re grasping the intent of those old lifters with the cup type retainer.
They are to be run with essentially “0” preload from the pushrod.
The plunger is preloaded by the retainer.
The purpose of that is if you float the valves, you can’t “pump the lifters up” and hang the valves open.
The plungers are already topped out.

Preloading them more doesn’t hurt anything, it just defeats the intent of the design.

You basically can’t check for coil bind/seal clearance with a hyd lifter, since it’s not fully pumped up when the engine isn’t running.

Thanks, PRHeads.
I'll report back after we get the break in run
done.

 

[Geoff 2]

Those lifters are the old Sealed Power Anti Pump up lifters. The 'special' circlip is used because it is muuuuuuuuuch stronger than the more common paper-clip type.
I have modified heaps of those lifters & a 16mm internal c'clip is a perfect fit as a replacement for the original type.

 

[1STMP]

Those lifters are the old Sealed Power Anti Pump up lifters. The 'special' circlip is used because it is muuuuuuuuuch stronger than the more common paper-clip type.
I have modified heaps of those lifters & a 16mm internal c'clip is a perfect fit as a replacement for the original type.

Thanks, Geoff 2.
I had already contemplated doing this. 16
snap rings are much cheaper than 16 new
lifters.
As you can see from my bad sketching, there
isn't a bona-fide snap ring groove in the lifter
bore, but more of a rounded shoulder that
allowed the spring clips to be pressed in until
the upper edges of the clips can engage the
upper lip of the groove. It looks to me that
the preload would have to be increased to keep
the pushrod cup from hitting a snap ring and
that a snap ring wouldn't stay tight against the
top lip.
Too late now though, I've got a new set of
lifters and pushrods installed. But I will plan
on getting the old set I have reworked for
future use using a snap ring if has worked
for you in the past.
Many of the lifter bodies had
fine verticle scratches and small nicks in
them.

 

[Geoff 2]

The lifter body of the std lifter, which takes the paper-clip, is the same body as the anti pump up lifter body.

 

[Geoff 2]

Should have added: those old lifters are better quality than todays' lifters of questionable quality & I would use them if you haven't sealed up the engine yet.

 

[Wietse]

Many of the lifter bodies had fine verticle scratches and small nicks in them.

I hope you did check the lifter bores so your new lifters will not end up the same, hard to judge on a picture if they are deep but they should not be there obviously.

 

[Gunner1]

Back in the day before EDM solid lifters I would grip my lifters by the top in my hobby lathe. Then I would drag a very fine carbide cutter down the side of the lifter body at a depth of .005. This was to form a very small pressure feed drip to the cam/lifter interface. I got away with some pretty serious spring pressures on street small blocks doing that.

 

[1STMP]

Should have added: those old lifters are better quality than todays' lifters of questionable quality & I would use them if you haven't sealed up the engine yet.

Happy Easter.
All back together, ready to fire it up. Waiting
for my son to give me a hand.

 

[1STMP]

I hope you did check the lifter bores so your new lifters will not end up the same, hard to judge on a picture if they are deep but they should not be there obviously.

Happy Easter.
We checked all the bores for obvious signs
of burrs and debris. All were clean and
smooth. All lifters rotated under spring load.
Oil coming up to the top for the rockers.
Lots of cam lube applied to the cam and
lifter faces, break in oil on the sides.

 

[Gunner1]

Yippee. Hope all your troubles are behind you.

 

[1STMP]

Yippee. Hope all your troubles are behind you.

Gunner, you're a character! Hope you had a good Easter Sunday.
We didn't get a chance to run it in just yet.
Found a problem with the needle and seat
on the rear bowl of the Quik Fuel. This
engine has been a struggle trying to figure
out what the builder put together.
(27 years ago, and I can't pick his brain).
He passed away.a year ago.

 

[1STMP]

It's one thing after another with this motor.
We pulled the rocker shaft to install the new
pushrods, and I noticed the rear rocker shaft
mounting boss had been broken off and then
welded back on. I'm beginning to wonder
now if that rear boss was not machined
in line with the other four, thus messing with
the preload and the straightness of the rocker
shaft. Cylinder 6 & 8 is where some of the
valvetrain noise was detected.
Bear in mind that none of the lifters or the
cam showed any signs of adverse wear.

 

[Wietse]

Probably dropped the cylinder head once when it was removed from the engine.
If properly done it should not be an issue, since the engine has been running before it has seen operating temperatures and if it has not cracked now it likely will never crack due to heat expansion.
You can check for straightness with the rocker shaft, maybe try this with the other rocker shaft to be sure but if you lay it down without any rockers etc. and see if it is flush, if you are able to rock it or there is a gap on another stand there is an issue.
If it lays flush on all stand you are ok. (ensuring the rocker shaft is straight by means of a straight edge)

 

[1STMP]

I hope you did check the lifter bores so your new lifters will not end up the same, hard to judge on a picture if they are deep but they should not be there obviously.

There was nothing wrong with the break-in
lifters other than some kind of goo in the
bottom of a few. Wear pattern on the face
was normal, all had taper, but all had very fine
verticle scratches on the lifter body. Seems
to me, if the engine were contaminated
that all of the lifters would have something
in them.
I'm kind of paranoid about firing this thing
up again, worried I'm going to have to do
everything all over again to get it right
for a third time. I'm double checking
everything based on advice given.

 

[Wietse]

What I meant was if the scratches were caused by some burrs on the lifter bores in the engine block to remove them prior to installing new ones, since you did not find any I guess that is ok.
Those scratches could also have been caused from dirt coming from the oil gallery that feeds the lifters if not cleaned out properly after machine work or blasting grit?
Guess that most of the crap has come out already by know though.
If you have the chance I would run the oil pump with an electric drill & priming tool with 1 lifter removed at the time, any crap remaining there is free to flow out.

As long as you go over everything and are confident it is installed correct you are in the right direction.
I think for all here it is a nerve wrecking time to start the engine up for the first time after work has been done, for the "you never know" situation.
If you doubt something, check again or confirm here with the guys.

 

[Gunner1]

I have built over 800 engines in the last 50 years. And still to this day I get the dreaded what ifs before every start up. All you can do is your best and then fire that puppy up. Most likely your fine.

 

[1STMP]

Thanks, guys. I really do appreciate the
vote of confidence. It's amazing to me
that I've got an engine that's on it's fifth
oil change, having traveled less than 50
miles.
800? Wow! I thought I was doing good at
4.
But I did have a bunch of fingers in this pie.
Available with a turret mounted .50 cal
and a GUNNER seat.

.

 

[1STMP]

After priming the engine, to be on the safe
side, we rotated the crank a few times to settle things in. Checked the rockers again for
looseness. Dang it, the same two cylinders,
(1 & 6) are no longer tight.
Could it be that too much of the valve tip
has been removed in order to level them out
across the tops? Or are the valve seats on
these two cylinders not quite machined as
deep as the rest of them?
And what would be the fix for this?
Have the heads reworked, or longer pushrods?
A bore scope check revealed all of the lifters
are spinning, the lifters are moving up and
down the same distance, and none appear
to be collapsed. Close inspection of the
shafts and rockers revealed no problems.
Good oiling from the shafts. All springs
measure at the correct install height, and all
retainers look good.
Reaching my wits end here....

 

[Orig69]

So when you installed the rockers they were not loose, but they are now after turning the crank. Are the rockers loose a little bit or a lot?