I followed Up in The Engine Section but here is more....

[cr8crshr]

Well...I got the new rocker arm keepers and spacers/shims done yesterday. Worked out really nicely I must say. I am more and more liking the newer stuff that we can use on our rides. Rusty...You were right on the spacing between the rockers and keepers. It was a tad too wide so I was able to get it to about .016 thousands as opposed to the almost .030 thousands with the older set up. For those that have asked, I am running newer roller rockers and not the cheap ones offered out there. Any way...I fired up the engine and it now actually runs smoother and a tad quieter than before. But that "tinney knock" is still there. Seeing as how I have replaced everything in this engine with all new, it is still there. The only thing left that I haven't even looked at is the possibility of "the lifter bore tolerances" are out and what I am hearing is in fact a lifter rattling around in its bore. From what was supposed to be a simple build now seems to be a complete failure on both my part and the Clown that put it together for me. I have checked the invoice from the work he did and there is no mention of any work done in that area or that needed to be. Now that doesn't mean that there wasn't anything done but at this point I don't know without pulling the engine again and tearing it down to inspect that. But although remote...in my opinion...it is still a possibility. I just wish there was a way to De-couple the tranny from the engine and still fire it up in the car to see if it just still might be the tranny making the noise and it reverberates through the engine. But being as it is a 727, and with the flex plate De-coupled from the Torque Converter there is no way of starting the engine. If I were able to do that then I could either confirm or deny that the motor is the root of the noise and visa versa.

So right now I am at a loss as to which way to go on this. To me the motor seems to be working correctly as it sounds just awesome...if I tune out the knocking...and would like to believe that after 3 tear downs and re-builds that it is right and as should be. I am toying with the thought of either just letting it sit the way it is for awhile and save up some more to procure another 383 or 400 block, buy a stroker kit, and re-build another using parts off of this 383, have the car transported to the tranny shop...I don't want to drive it right now till that issue is addressed...or cut my losses and get out from the project and move on to something else. The latter of which is sounding and becoming more more and more like the direction I need to take. It's getting old real fast and I am wearing thin my patience and wallet trying to build a car instead of finding the most complete and running alternative that I can enjoy. As it sits now, I ain't really enjoying it much. Thanks to all...especially Brother Jon/69A100 and all here that have offered up support and encouragement. Time will just have to tell...cr8crshr/Tuck

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Be certain the rockers are not contacting the valve covers.Don't ask how I know:blob1:

 

[Hemirunner]

The only thing left that I haven't even looked at is the possibility of "the lifter bore tolerances" are out and what I am hearing is in fact a lifter rattling around in its bore. From what was supposed to be a simple build now seems to be a complete failure on both my part and the Clown that put it together for me. I have checked the invoice from the work he did and there is no mention of any work done in that area or that needed to be. Now that doesn't mean that there wasn't anything done but at this point I don't know without pulling the engine again and tearing it down to inspect that. But although remote...in my opinion...it is still a possibility. .cr8crshr/Tuck

Is it a roller cam or a flat tappet, hydraulic or solid? Lifter to bore issues do NOT produce a "tinney knocking sound".... they produce piles of metal in the pan.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Is it a roller cam or a flat tappet, hydraulic or solid? Lifter to bore issues do NOT produce a "tinney knocking sound".... they produce piles of metal in the pan.

Are you using a stock timing cover??
Are you sure the converter bolts are not hitting anything?

 

[Budnicks]

any aftermarket camshaft, with any decent lift, especially one with aggressive lobes or small base circle type camshafts will make more noise than a stock Hyd. cam... are you sure the push-rods aren't hitting the heads where they come by the intake ports ??, are you sure the push-rods are the proper style/length ??, especially with a small base circle camshaft... are you showing more than 3 full threads out side underneath the rockers when you have the preload adjusted properly ??, if you do your push-rods are probably too short & your oil starving the ball & cup at the push-rod to adjuster connections... are your rocker shafts good & on right sides up, with the oil hole pointing down & towards the outside of the heads ??, if they are stock style shafts, some aftermarket shafts have holes both top & bottom & don't need orientation... does your camshaft have a cam-thrust button between the timing cover & camshaft ??, another-wards is the cam walking & making noise if not... any of these things mentioned can & will produce valve-train noises, a larger camshaft will also create more noise than a stock hydraulic lifter/camshaft valve-train combo too... maybe try to put something up-to/on the valve covers, in several different places, something like a long screwdriver or something that you can put up-to your ear, {stethoscope if you can get one} & see if you can identify where the sound is coming from... just spitballen' here, trying to help ya.... I'm not sure what manifolds your running headers or stock cast iron units... did you read the post I replied to in the project section about the Iron manifolds & the heat stove flapper in the manifold &/or shaft making noise ?? I had one doing it & it drove me crazy, just needed a new shaft & new thermal spring...

 

[RustyRatRod]

I left a reply in the engine section.

 

[cr8crshr]

Be certain the rockers are not contacting the valve covers.Don't ask how I know:blob1:

No that area was one of the first checked. No contact at all. And that is using the MOPAR Aluminum Valve covers with the Baffles installed plus a thicker metal and ribber gasket combo. So there is plenty of height clearance. Thanks for that thought though

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Is it a roller cam or a flat tappet, hydraulic or solid? Lifter to bore issues do NOT produce a "tinney knocking sound".... they produce piles of metal in the pan.

Flat Tappet/Hydraulic Cam, Hughes 2328BL cam. Specs are on their web site...

- - - Updated - - -

Are you using a stock timing cover??
Are you sure the converter bolts are not hitting anything?

Yes to both those questions. Noise emanates at the rear/fire wall side of the engine bay...

- - - Updated - - -

any aftermarket camshaft, with any decent lift, especially one with aggressive lobes or small base circle type camshafts will make more noise than a stock Hyd. cam... are you sure the push-rods aren't hitting the heads where they come by the intake ports ??, are you sure the push-rods are the proper style/length ??, especially with a small base circle camshaft... are you showing more than 3 full threads out side underneath the rockers when you have the preload adjusted properly ??, if you do your push-rods are probably too short & your oil starving the ball & cup at the push-rod to adjuster connections... are your rocker shafts good & on right sides up, with the oil hole pointing down & towards the outside of the heads ??, if they are stock style shafts, some aftermarket shafts have holes both top & bottom & don't need orientation... does your camshaft have a cam-thrust button between the timing cover & camshaft ??, another-wards is the cam walking & making noise if not... any of these things mentioned can & will produce valve-train noises, a larger camshaft will also create more noise than a stock hydraulic lifter/camshaft valve-train combo too... maybe try to put something up-to/on the valve covers, in several different places, something like a long screwdriver or something that you can put up-to your ear, {stethoscope if you can get one} & see if you can identify where the sound is coming from... just spitballen' here, trying to help ya.... I'm not sure what manifolds your running headers or stock cast iron units... did you read the post I replied to in the project section about the Iron manifolds & the heat stove flapper in the manifold &/or shaft making noise ?? I had one doing it & it drove me crazy, just needed a new shaft & new thermal spring...

99% of what you suggest has been done and re-done. The exhaust manifold thought though is something I might look at as I had to remove the spring portion as it got bent and would bind up. Is it just possible that the flapper in the manifold is causing this? Might have to see later this week as I am jammed up until next Saturday...

 

[RustyRatRod]

Best I can describe what I call "normal" high performance engine sound is a hollow, metallic "knock"......very similar to a diesel knock but quieter. It's all eight, not just one independent knock. If that's what you are experiencing, I would drive the everlivin hell out of it.

 

[Budnicks]

99% of what you suggest has been done and re-done. The exhaust manifold thought though is something I might look at as I had to remove the spring portion as it got bent and would bind up. Is it just possible that the flapper in the manifold is causing this? Might have to see later this week as I am jammed up until next Saturday...

Been there done that...LOL... just throwing out options & opinions

 

[67 coronet]

make yourself a noise finder.buy a cheep stethescope,pull off the pad peice that would go against skin and put a long metal rod or even a bolt in that spot.touching that metal rod to different spots will isolate noise like you wouldnt imagine.just slide under the car while its running and touch to differnt locations to isolate the spot.use it all the time here at the shop to find small sounds.should do a great job of isolating your trans vs eng problem.

 

[cr8crshr]

Thanks I all ready have one and I still cannot pin point the source....