Swapping a Borgeson steering box in a 1970 Charger

[Belvedere408]

Well, that's discouraging. I took mine to the grocery store last night and it was raising holy hell when backing into a parking spot. I'm used to the car drawing attention... but not because it's screeching. I was thinking about a new belt just to try, but your experience doesn't give me much hope. The weird thing is that it doesn't always do it. It almost always does it when reversing direction at low/now speed, but oftentimes I'll be in the middle of turning and it'll squeal quickly then stop.

That's crazy mine does it also sometimes reversing out of my driveway. I was thinking it was my manual transmission flywheel an all that screeching.

 

[71RRHI]

That's crazy mine does it also sometimes reversing out of my driveway. I was thinking it was my manual transmission flywheel an all that screeching.

Sounds like we might have a trend here

 

[Kern Dog]

I thought my P/S belt was squealing but it is the water pump/fan-idler-crank belt.
The only thing that could even be considered imperfect about the Borgeson swap is the occasional stiff/inadequate assist that happens when I first start it up after sitting awhile. It sometimes feels like the assist is too low and steering effort is high. I just rev it up a bit higher and it works, a moment later as the fluid warms up it works normally.
I've never had any hissing, no humming, no leaks and generally, nothing but great performance.

 

[71RRHI]

I thought my P/S belt was squealing but it is the water pump/fan-idler-crank belt.
The only thing that could even be considered imperfect about the Borgeson swap is the occasional stiff/inadequate assist that happens when I first start it up after sitting awhile. It sometimes feels like the assist is too low and steering effort is high. I just rev it up a bit higher and it works, a moment later as the fluid warms up it works normally.
I've never had any hissing, no humming, no leaks and generally, nothing but great performance.

I agree, I've been very happy with mine since the install in 2016. But recently I have a loud belt squeal. Intermittently mostly in reverse but a few times in forward gear, always at low speed. Like I said in another post, since its going on 10 years I figured it must be the belt. Changed the belt and same thing. I hear you about maybe it is something else. But it only happens at low speed, like backing out or in a parking stall. Only happens when turning the steering wheel. As soon as you stop turning the wheel, it stops. For some reason it only seams to happen when your backing in or out of a parking space, and people are checking out the the car

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

non-mopar story, but the 67 Impala that I drove for 25 yrs with power steering would make a loud squeal at low speed parking lot maneuvers if I turned the wheel all the way to the lock stop point. If I didn't turn it that far it didn't make that squealing noise. All other steering behavior was perfect. The full lock turning was straining the system and often times if I added a bit of PS Fluid the noise would not happen again for awhile (maybe a slow leaks?). Not sure if it was a belt skipping or if the noise was from the rack itself. Just sharing in case it provides any new info on what might be happening with the Borgeson boxes. Can anyone remember having a similar issue like this with the stock Mopar box?

A quick Google search says....

Common causes:

• Loose or worn drive belt: This is the most frequent cause of a squeal when turning, especially at low speeds or when the engine is cold. Turning puts extra load on the belt, causing it to slip and squeal.
• Low power steering fluid: A low fluid level can cause the pump to cavitate (mix air with the fluid), creating a whining or squealing noise as the air bubbles are pumped through the system.
• Failing power steering pump: The pump itself can be the source of the noise. A pump nearing the end of its life may squeal, particularly under load. This can sometimes happen if the fluid is contaminated from a worn pump. Turning the steering wheel puts excess load on the power steering to where the belt is skipping.
• Air in the power steering system: This is a common form of cavitation that occurs when there's a leak in a low-pressure line or a damaged hose, allowing air to be drawn into the fluid.

Based on this, I would try installing a magnetic filter and flush the fluid, then maybe swap the pump and see if the problem persists.

 

[Darrah]

non-mopar story, but the 67 Impala that I drove for 25 yrs with power steering would make a loud squeal at low speed parking lot maneuvers if I turned the wheel all the way to the lock stop point. If I didn't turn it that far it didn't make that squealing noise. All other steering behavior was perfect. The full lock turning was straining the system and often times if I added a bit of PS Fluid the noise would not happen again for awhile (maybe a slow leaks?). Not sure if it was a belt skipping or if the noise was from the rack itself. Just sharing in case it provides any new info on what might be happening with the Borgeson boxes. Can anyone remember having a similar issue like this with the stock Mopar box?

A quick Google search says....

Common causes:

• Loose or worn drive belt: This is the most frequent cause of a squeal when turning, especially at low speeds or when the engine is cold. Turning puts extra load on the belt, causing it to slip and squeal.
• Low power steering fluid: A low fluid level can cause the pump to cavitate (mix air with the fluid), creating a whining or squealing noise as the air bubbles are pumped through the system.
• Failing power steering pump: The pump itself can be the source of the noise. A pump nearing the end of its life may squeal, particularly under load. This can sometimes happen if the fluid is contaminated from a worn pump. Turning the steering wheel puts excess load on the power steering to where the belt is skipping.
• Air in the power steering system: This is a common form of cavitation that occurs when there's a leak in a low-pressure line or a damaged hose, allowing air to be drawn into the fluid.

Based on this, I would try installing a magnetic filter and flush the fluid, then maybe swap the pump and see if the problem persists.

I think most every old Mopar I've had will squeal if I go full-lock and hold it there with pressure. I was taught when I first started driving to never hold the steering at full-lock, although I think that probably applies even more to rack-and-pinion.

I can take a high-speed video and with 99% certainly show it's the power-steering slipping and raising hell. When it happens, the steering gets momentarily hard... it actually does act a lot like when you hit full-lock now that you mention it. It squeals and feels almost like it's locking up, but once I release it and try to turn again, it's usually fine.

I've flushed the system three times when I installed it due to other reasons, so I doubt that's it, although I've considered trying it again. Personally, I think it's something mechanical within the box, but there's nothing I can do to prove it, and it doesn't prevent me from driving it. It sure is embarrassing trying to park at a cruise-in.

I'll try to take a video and post it this weekend.

 

[Kern Dog]

I'll try to take a video and post it this weekend.

Make sure to record it like this:

Horizontal mode. NOT this way....

Vertical video looks terrible.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I think most every old Mopar I've had will squeal if I go full-lock and hold it there with pressure. I was taught when I first started driving to never hold the steering at full-lock, although I think that probably applies even more to rack-and-pinion.

I can take a high-speed video and with 99% certainly show it's the power-steering slipping and raising hell. When it happens, the steering gets momentarily hard... it actually does act a lot like when you hit full-lock now that you mention it. It squeals and feels almost like it's locking up, but once I release it and try to turn again, it's usually fine.

I've flushed the system three times when I installed it due to other reasons, so I doubt that's it, although I've considered trying it again. Personally, I think it's something mechanical within the box, but there's nothing I can do to prove it, and it doesn't prevent me from driving it. It sure is embarrassing trying to park at a cruise-in.

I'll try to take a video and post it this weekend.

to see if it's the Borgeson box itself or the pump (which may have worn out due to the Borgeson), have the car running and place a tire iron contacting the box while you lower your ear close to the upper end of the tire iron. Then have an assistant turn the steering wheel to confirm if the noise is from there or the pump. I've used this method before to check the health of a water pump with the engine running (my dad's trick).

 

[Darrah]

to see if it's the Borgeson box itself or the pump (which may have worn out due to the Borgeson), have the car running and place a tire iron contacting the box while you lower your ear close to the upper end of the tire iron. Then have an assistant turn the steering wheel to confirm if the noise is from there or the pump. I've used this method before to check the health of a water pump with the engine running (my dad's trick).

The noise is belt squeal, zero doubt about it. Not the box or pump. The "hissing" is the box, but that's the least of my worries at the moment.

As far as the tire iron trick, I'm well versed lol. I've been in industrial maintenance most of my career, much of it involving mechanical reliability and root cause failure analysis. Before we got "fancy", my tool of choice was a broomstick to determine issues within large bearings. Now I use ultrasound but, I'll be honest, sometimes a makeshift mechanics stethoscope is just as easy/effective.

I mentioned it in another thread, but that's part of what's annoying about my experience. I felt as though I was blown off when I brought up the issues, and I'm far from inexperienced/idiotic. I've designed multiple hydraulic systems, rebuilt up to 800hp gearboxes, hold multiple maintenance/reliability certifications... I'm not a moron, and I rarely complain or go back to a vendor with issues. Honestly, I think I have a bad box. The fluid was dirty from the start, even with 100% new components throughout the whole system, and took three times of flushing to look acceptable to me. I should've done an oil sample to see what was contaminating it; that would've given me an indication as to what the heck was going on.

 

[icetech]

The noise is belt squeal, zero doubt about it. Not the box or pump. The "hissing" is the box, but that's the least of my worries at the moment.

As far as the tire iron trick, I'm well versed lol. I've been in industrial maintenance most of my career, much of it involving mechanical reliability and root cause failure analysis. Before we got "fancy", my tool of choice was a broomstick to determine issues within large bearings. Now I use ultrasound but, I'll be honest, sometimes a makeshift mechanics stethoscope is just as easy/effective.

I mentioned it in another thread, but that's part of what's annoying about my experience. I felt as though I was blown off when I brought up the issues, and I'm far from inexperienced/idiotic. I've designed multiple hydraulic systems, rebuilt up to 800hp gearboxes, hold multiple maintenance/reliability certifications... I'm not a moron, and I rarely complain or go back to a vendor with issues. Honestly, I think I have a bad box. The fluid was dirty from the start, even with 100% new components throughout the whole system, and took three times of flushing to look acceptable to me. I should've done an oil sample to see what was contaminating it; that would've given me an indication as to what the heck was going on.

I wouldn't get annoyed.. the problem with asking questions is that no one knows what the other person knows.. and people will show up that need to be shown where the pump is