Swapping a Borgeson steering box in a 1970 Charger

[68 Sport Satellite]

About 3 years now

Any holiday discount code for FBBO members? Should I order through you direct or through the website?

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

We are trying to hold the price while everything around us increases in cost. Feel free to call or place online. Price includes shipping to the lower 48 and the kits are in stock.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

how do I know if I need the small sector box or the large sector box?

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Can anyone (esp Bergman) comment on KD's length install issue from post #67? Has anyone else had this issue when using the Bergman coupler that I plan to use? Mine is a '68 B body with collapsible stock steering column. (KD - I hope it's ok we keep your thread going with these questions...)

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

Can anyone (esp Bergman) comment on KD's length install issue from post #67? Has anyone else had this issue when using the Bergman coupler that I plan to use? Mine is a '68 B body with collapsible stock steering column. (KD - I hope it's ok we keep your thread going with these questions...)

Our coupler length is based on the EXACT length difference between the Borgeson box and the OE power box. This is a constant. Even with slight differences in coupler body lengths, this is never an issue. #67 seems to refer to getting an alignment after the box install. Since it's impossible to replace one casting with another exactly, you must at least check the toe before driving after the box is installed.

 

[Kern Dog]

how do I know if I need the small sector box or the large sector box?

The small sector was 1972 and older cars and C body models.
Regarding the length of the steering shaft, I simply figured that the plastic shear pins just got old and brittle and did break, allowing the shaft to compress slightly.

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

The small sector was 1972 and older cars and C body models.
Regarding the length of the steering shaft, I simply figured that the plastic shear pins just got old and brittle and did break, allowing the shaft to compress slightly.

Small sector until 72. Large, 73 later.

They aren't shear pins. There is a groove on the inner shaft that liquid nylon was injected through a hole in the outer.

 

[Kern Dog]

I thought that I read that Rick Ehrenberg referred to them as "shear pins".

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I thought that I read that Rick Ehrenberg referred to them as "shear pins".

my stock coupler has a round hollow metal roll pin (also called shear pin). Are we talking about the same thing? Or do you mean for the collapsible steering shafts some other internal pins?

 

[Kern Dog]

The term that I referenced is not related to the coupler. The shaft within a shaft is where I am referring.

 

[ckessel]

Its best to measure the shaft size between the Pittman arm and box. The parts swapping over years, like a reman box, leaves you with the possibility of not having what it left the factory with. With the cost of shipping today, save your money and measure it otherwise you pay for freight twice.

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

The term that I referenced is not related to the coupler. The shaft within a shaft is where I am referring.

This is what I thought. During assembly from the factory, the slip shaft needed to be held in place. The nylon accomplished this. When properly installed, the tiny anti pullout pin on the side of the coupler and the snap ring and e clip retained the shaft at either end for safety.

 

[69ChargerR/TSE]

Any feedback noise in your column?
I have the 800126 to install in my 69, and don't want to cut the steering shaft and am looking at Bergmans BAC No Cut Borgeson Steering Box Coupler Kit - Bergman Auto Craft

I was wondering if Proforged Chassis Parts 116-10026 Proforged Fast Ratio Pitman and Idler Arm Kits | Summit Racing is a bad idea?

Thank you! Great write up

 

[Kern Dog]

I have the engine, transmission and K member out of the car now but I didn't have any of the reported noise from the steering box or pump.
Regarding the Fast Ratio arms, I purposely removed the ones that I had to avoid the dramatic change of steering ratio that they would give.
Stock Mopar steering box is 15.7 to 1 and approximately 12 to 1 with the F/R arms. The Borgeson is 14 to 1. The F/R arms likely would convert that to below 10 to 1. To me, this seems too tight and more likely to feel twitchy and too fast for me.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I concur with KD. I used to run the Fast Ratio arms with my Firm Feel Stage II. Turn in response was much improved, but it sometimes felt a bit twitchy on off-ramps and steering effort increased dramatically (not quite like manual steering, kind of in-between manual and Stage II Firm Feel). Due to the ratio change with the Borgeson box, it's not recommended to also add the Fast Ratio arms with it.

 

[Kern Dog]

For those that asked about the angle that the steering box has as installed, here is a picture.

In short, yes, there is some angle that it sits at but I couldn't tell you how much of an angle....maybe 2 or 3 degrees??

 

[Kern Dog]

I just realized that I didn't really explain how I felt about the feel of this steering box.
I was really impressed. The car didn't feel like it wanted to wander like before. The center slop is gone. The steering effort is much easier. I was used to the high effort that the Firm Feel stage 3 and the longer steering arms delivered. The turns lock to lock are about 3 1/2.
I did expect the steering to feel a bit heavier but I was not disappointed with it. Since the car has a 5 speed, having the steering a little easier to operate is a good thing. I want to teach the wife how to drive a manual transmission so this will help.
No leaks, no noises. I still have the Saginaw pump. In fact, I am currently switching to a hydroboost brake system that uses power steering pressure to assist the brakes.....

Starting with post # 304:

Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger

 

[Gus chiggins]

Yes, here goes!

View attachment 1289121

This car is getting a Borgeson steering box. I ordered it last week and it arrived yesterday.
I expected a bigger box.

View attachment 1289123



Well packed.

View attachment 1289124

The shipper would have to be a real monkey to damage this.


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View attachment 1289126

Jeez, this thing is tiny.

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View attachment 1289129 View attachment 1289127

Did you have power steering prior to getting the borgeson steering box? I have manual steering, and would hate to cut the shaft, or swap in a power steering column to do this swap. I will if i have too though. My car is a 1967 b body. Don't know if i would have to swap the idler, and pitman arms.

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

Did you have power steering prior to getting the borgeson steering box? I have manual steering, and would hate to cut the shaft, or swap in a power steering column to do this swap. I will if i have too though. My car is a 1967 b body. Don't know if i would have to swap the idler, and pitman arms.

FBBO vendor and site supporter Bergmanautocraft.com has been selling bolt in kits for 9 years. Power or manual, no shaft mods necessary. All collapsing column shafts were designed to accept power and manual. Our kits use OE hoses. If you have power already, simply plug in your original hoses. If you have manual, we have a complete conversion using factory style parts.

 

[Gus chiggins]

FBBO vendor and site supporter Bergmanautocraft.com has been selling bolt in kits for 9 years. Power or manual, no shaft mods necessary. All collapsing column shafts were designed to accept power and manual. Our kits use OE hoses. If you have power already, simply plug in your original hoses. If you have manual, we have a complete conversion using factory style parts.

I do have manual steering. What would a complete conversion cost ? Thanks.