Swapping a Borgeson steering box in a 1970 Charger

[Kern Dog]

Following up a bit on my Borgeson conversion, was able to finally find the time and available access to the alignment rack, distracted by other projects. Not sure if I mentioned previously, as well as the Borgeson box and related steering column modifications to stop the hydraulic noise coming up the column, I swapped in a pair Firm Feel tubular upper control arms (rubber bushings), and a full set of Bilsteins, replacing the KYBs. After some significant behind the wheel time today, have to say it is a huge improvement, looking forward to driving it more.
View attachment 1899499

HOW could a guy like you, one that is a sharp dude in regards to electrical matters....be so LATE to ditch the shittiest shock absorbers ever put on a Mopar ??
K Y B s? Really ???

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

HOW could a guy like you, one that is a sharp dude in regards to electrical matters....be so LATE to ditch the shittiest shock absorbers ever put on a Mopar ??
K Y B s? Really ???

Yea, late to that party for sure, no excuses. Priorities and a degree of laziness I suppose. When I restored this car almost 20 years ago now, don’t recall any chatter about anything other than KYBs. Hoping to spend more time driving my cars now.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

What were the mods to remove the column hydraulic noise?

Basically, converting the lower column to a stock type ’73 configuration, replacing the column tube, shaft with a ’73 B-body column parts that includes a “rag-joint” and related heat shield. Kind of a tough thing to do mentally, installing a rag joint, going backwards of sorts but really didn’t like the noise. Wanted the Borgeson box, didn’t want to cut the shaft to accommodate the Borgeson Mopar isolation coupler. From my research, it was only the factory rag-jointed C-body guys that never complained about noise, took the plunge, dead quite now. See my previous post #365 for some pictures.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Basically, converting the lower column to a stock type ’73 configuration, replacing the column tube, shaft with a ’73 B-body column parts that includes a “rag-joint” and related heat shield. Kind of a tough thing to do mentally, installing a rag joint, going backwards of sorts but really didn’t like the noise. Wanted the Borgeson box, didn’t want to cut the shaft to accommodate the Borgeson Mopar isolation coupler. From my research, it was only the factory rag-jointed C-body guys that never complained about noise, took the plunge, dead quite now. See my previous post #365 for some pictures.

Thanks for the info.
Yeah, tough mentally.....but could be a project for me in the future.
Right now it sounds like a rattle snake is behind the steering wheel...

 

[chrger1967]

Following up a bit on my Borgeson conversion, was able to finally find the time and available access to the alignment rack, distracted by other projects. Not sure if I mentioned previously, as well as the Borgeson box and related steering column modifications to stop the hydraulic noise coming up the column, I swapped in a pair Firm Feel tubular upper control arms (rubber bushings), and a full set of Bilsteins, replacing the KYBs. After some significant behind the wheel time today, have to say it is a huge improvement, looking forward to driving it more.
View attachment 1899499

You ever find out what that noise was?

 

[Kern Dog]

There have been reports of a H I S S sort of noise, others mention a sort of HUMM. Either way, this is a form of resonance that may be related to the output of the P/S pump itself. The stock steering box was very forgiving of pump pressure variations but the Borgeson seems to be more finicky.

 

[chrger1967]

There have been reports of a H I S S sort of noise, others mention a sort of HUMM. Either way, this is a form of resonance that may be related to the output of the P/S pump itself. The stock steering box was very forgiving of pump pressure variations but the Borgeson seems to be more finicky.

As long as it doesn't cause any issues, hopefully it's not a big deal.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

You ever find out what that noise was?

I believe it has to do with the proximity of the gear box pressure control valve to the input shaft of the box. The hydraulic noises generated by the control valve operation being mechanically/directly transmitted up through the stock style coupler (BAC’s version of the stock coupler) and steering column shaft to the upper column and steering wheel. The only thing that eliminated the noise for me was converting the column shaft and coupling to a ’73 style that included an isolator, rag-joint. Dead quiet now, a pleasure to drive.

The stock Chrysler gear box control valve is mounted on top of the box, not directly connected to the input shaft.

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

I have found the noise eminating from the restriction in the pressure port. There is a mismatch between the flare seat adapter and the port in the casting. I port every box that goes out the door these days. Once I started doing this complaints dropped to being very rare. Borgeson intalls flare seat adapters with larger IDs these days. This noise is not a Mopar phenomena. I've heard this on other boxes.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

I agree the porting issue mentioned likely plays a role in the amplitude of the noise transmitted up the Mopar columns I experienced last year but the porting didn’t eliminate the noise altogether. Replacement boxes were sent out and installed (thanks BAC) and were quieter for sure for both installations last year, but still a bit too annoying for my own installation. Now just hoping the reproduction stock-style rag-joint doesn’t become an ongoing maintenance issue anytime soon.

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

I agree the porting issue mentioned likely plays a role in the amplitude of the noise transmitted up the Mopar columns I experienced last year but the porting didn’t eliminate the noise altogether. Replacement boxes were sent out and installed (thanks BAC) and were quieter for sure for both installations last year, but still a bit too annoying for my own installation. Now just hoping the reproduction stock-style rag-joint doesn’t become an ongoing maintenance issue anytime soon.

You're definitely in the minority.

 

[Darrah]

You're definitely in the minority.

I must be as well, because mine has a pretty significant amount of noise. It's less annoying than the hard spot and accompanying belt squeal that has developed when reversing steering direction at low speeds (scares the hell out of people in parking lots). And yes, the belt is very tight... you can actually hear the engine drop RPM momentarily when it happens.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

You're definitely in the minority.

Doesn’t surprise me, I think I’ve heard that said before.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

I have found the noise eminating from the restriction in the pressure port. There is a mismatch between the flare seat adapter and the port in the casting. I port every box that goes out the door these days. Once I started doing this complaints dropped to being very rare. Borgeson intalls flare seat adapters with larger IDs these days. This noise is not a Mopar phenomena. I've heard this on other boxes.

Where can I get this larger flare seat adapter?

...or any detailed info pics on where to grind?

When I am out driving it sounds like an egg is frying on my steering wheel.

 

[Kern Dog]

Doesn’t surprise me, I think I’ve heard that said before.

It is extremely annoying when any company or vendor dismisses a problem that is widely known.
I'm not directing this at BAC exclusively.
In 2020, I was building a 383 for my Jigsaw Charger. I called Racer Brown to see about a cam. I told the guy about my concerns with the risk of flat tappet camshaft failures. He acted as if he never heard of a cam going bad.
I've talked with vendors about other products and voiced my concerns in the most polite manner as possible and almost every time, I got the same canned-pre packaged response : Huh, that is the first time that I've heard of that.
Wrong. These people are either in a cave, never actually talking to people that actually have done the work or are told to shrug off any and all complaints about the products.
I understand that there will be some accommodations needed to make some stuff work. That is fine but don't lie to me and say that I am the only one that has had this stuff happen.

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

Where can I get this larger flare seat adapter?

...or any detailed info pics on where to grind?

When I am out driving it sounds like an egg is frying on my steering wheel.

Look down the center of the brass flare adapter mainly on the pressure side. You'll see the port mismatch to the casting. I use a dremel 7144 bit on an angle to grind away the brass and make a smooth path to the casting. You can clean up the casting step as well. The mismatch on the return side is not as bad.