Swapping a Borgeson steering box in a 1970 Charger

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Excellent write up! Keep in mind, we port all the inlets and outlets of our boxes to keep the fluid flowing smoothly. We appreciate the support from this board. Let us know with any questions. Maybe we’ll meet up on the Power Tour if anyone is going.

I have a question!
Im restoring a saginaw pump to use with my Borgeson box.
How many shims should it be to have the correct pressure? (The common ballpark so I have a good starting point.)

 

[skingjack]

Thanks Wild RT & Kern Dog for verifying. Now onto re-positioning the dust cap.

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

I have a question!
Im restoring a saginaw pump to use with my Borgeson box.
How many shims should it be to have the correct pressure? (The common ballpark so I have a good starting point.)

I’d take all but one out to start

 

[Beekeeper]

Since you guys are on the subject of pump pressures can a Federal pump be used with the borgeson steering gear?

 

[Kern Dog]

I have a question!
Im restoring a saginaw pump to use with my Borgeson box.
How many shims should it be to have the correct pressure? (The common ballpark so I have a good starting point.)

MY understanding is that the Borgeson needs all the pressure that a stock pump can provide. Most of the V8 spec Saginaw pumps that I have disassembled have one thin shim. When I was screwing around with the hydroboost system, (A dismal failure, I might add) I used NO shims at all.
It can still be hard to steer while stopped with no shims in place, but I have 275 series tires up front.

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

Since you guys are on the subject of pump pressures can a Federal pump be used with the borgeson steering gear?

Yes usually. I've sold new Federal pumps that work. I need these when I sell them to hemi guys. I'd try it with the pump you have, you can always replace it.

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

MY understanding is that the Borgeson needs all the pressure that a stock pump can provide. Most of the V8 spec Saginaw pumps that I have disassembled have one thin shim. When I was screwing around with the hydroboost system, (A dismal failure, I might add) I used NO shims at all.
It can still be hard to steer while stopped with no shims in place, but I have 275 series tires up front.

Relief pressure is only part of it. The orifice of the valve controls the flow.

 

[Beekeeper]

Yes usually. I've sold new Federal pumps that work. I need these when I sell them to hemi guys. I'd try it with the pump you have, you can always replace it.

thanks for the info the car has a Hemi in it

 

[70ChargerRT]

MY understanding is that the Borgeson needs all the pressure that a stock pump can provide. Most of the V8 spec Saginaw pumps that I have disassembled have one thin shim. When I was screwing around with the hydroboost system, (A dismal failure, I might add) I used NO shims at all.
It can still be hard to steer while stopped with no shims in place, but I have 275 series tires up front.

I bought my complete set up off of Peter and he has been very helpful but I thought this was a ready to go set up. My car wouldn’t turn the steering wheel at idle, it has 245 tires on it. You know what takes place next but I’ll skip it. Mine had 3 shims in it. Took 2 shims out which I guess is supposed to give you 1200 PSI. Well the POS Borgeson box started leaking!!! You have to be kidding me!!! How much Power Steering Fluid am I going to have to buy? Called Borgeson and they told me if I could get the top 4 bolts out and I guess you call it the steering sector, has to come about half way out, that I could fix it without taking the box out of the car. Well I asked him several questions but his only answer was that the extra PSI exposed a weak spot in the seal. I was able to fix it just like Borgeson said but what a PITA it was to have to go through all that bull **** just to finally fix it.

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

I bought my complete set up off of Peter and he has been very helpful but I thought this was a ready to go set up. My car wouldn’t turn the steering wheel at idle, it has 245 tires on it. You know what takes place next but I’ll skip it. Mine had 3 shims in it. Took 2 shims out which I guess is supposed to give you 1200 PSI. Well the POS Borgeson box started leaking!!! You have to be kidding me!!! How much Power Steering Fluid am I going to have to buy? Called Borgeson and they told me if I could get the top 4 bolts out and I guess you call it the steering sector, has to come about half way out, that I could fix it without taking the box out of the car. Well I asked him several questions but his only answer was that the extra PSI exposed a weak spot in the seal. I was able to fix it just like Borgeson said but what a PITA it was to have to go through all that bull **** just to finally fix it.

It sucks when things happen. However, I've sold thousands of boxes at this point and the modular construction does not lend itself to leaking. This box was designed for the pressure Borgeson suggests. Sometimes its hard to get real world answers from large companies as they support many different products.

 

[70ChargerRT]

It sucks when things happen. However, I've sold thousands of boxes at this point and the modular construction does not lend itself to leaking. This box was designed for the pressure Borgeson suggests. Sometimes its hard to get real world answers from large companies as they support many different products.

It’s definitely not your fault whatsoever. I just had to be the SOB it happened too.

 

[Don selleck]

Very nice write up Greg, just read through the whole thing. I did one on my charger in '18, and now got one for my 70 AAR. I just ordered the no cut box coupler, didn't want to cut the column. Very nice refresher course and learned a few things. Thanks!

 

[Kern Dog]

Thanks for the kind words.
I often go off on tangents when I post about my projects. Sometimes it can be hard to focus on the specifics when there is so much of the back and forth banter. I like that though, it feels like real life.
I like to know when a thread like this helps others.

 

[Darter6]

I like to know when a thread like this helps others.

Amen.

 

[Kern Dog]

I’m just starting another Borgeson swap, this time in THIS car:

In the instructions, it stated that the left to right range of travel has to be centered before attaching the column coupler. I was careful to do this right in the Charger so I’m taking the same care to do it for this Plymouth. I put the coupler on the shaft to make it easier to rotate.
It isn’t 3 1/2 turns like I’ve read, this one is about 3 3/4. After several full sweeps left to right and right to left, I found center and removed the coupler to find this:

I dont know if the dimple is there by design or just by coincidence but it is exactly at the 12:00 position.

I added a yellow stripe just as a quickie reminder of the correct placement.
I dont recall if my steering box had this dimple. If this is a new thing, kudos to Peter Bergman if he added it.

 

[Kern Dog]

Something I didn’t think to ask:
What position is the coupler supposed to be with the steering wheel at center? I have cars here with the coupler in a variety of positions.
Does it matter? I don’t see how it would but I’m not sure.
Here is the Plymouth.

My ratty Jigsaw Charger. The roll pin hole is left of center.

Ginger, my other Charger with a Borgeson box.

Hard to see but the roll pin hole is to the right of center.

My 67 Dart.

The Dart coupler is like The Plymouth and Ginger.
Anyone know if this makes a difference?

 

[1 Wild R/T]

This notch...

And this hole...

along with the missing spline that locates the steering wheel all line up...

 

[Kern Dog]

I've had a few couplers with no notch. Maybe they were aftermarket replacements?

These stock steering boxes are huge. You get used to them but once you see a Borgeson, it reminds you of a 1970s Ghetto Blaster radio versus a Sony Walkman....
This car had compact tri-Y headers that hugged the block better but I still had to pull the left side to get the steering box out.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Looking good! Thanks for the progress report and help on my car since I haven't had time to get this done. Appreciate it brother!

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

I got my box pretty recently and it has the notch.